The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #45911   Message #3791057
Posted By: Jim Carroll
19-May-16 - 09:36 AM
Thread Name: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Subject: RE: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Oh come on - this has been dealt with over and over again - you have had the researched evidence, you have offered none.
"that Ireland was not entitled to independence".
Independence for the Irish has never been anything than as a complete entity, even to the extent of fighting a Civil War when partition was forced on it and constant conflict between the two communities in the six counties has been a fact of liofe and is ongoing since partition. Ireland is Ireland - one country for at least 800 years and that it is inconceivable to the vast majority of Irish people that -
You put forward that that Ireland was only a united nation up to Norman times, which, as far as I am concerned, directly calls into question its validity as a nation - you decline to respond to the fact that the Six Counties were the invention of a foreign power and have only been in existence for less than a century.
Great Britain only became a unified sovereign state in 1707. around six-and-a-half centuries after the Norman invasion - does that invalidate Britain as a unified entity - of course it doesn't it it is crass to suggest otherwise.
Doesn't invalidate any of the units to claim independence, but that has sfa to do whith when it was united.
You have questioned Ireland as a united nation therefore you have suggested that it is not entitled to full independence - that has been your argument all along.
Irland has always been culturally united, no matter what political divisions have taken place.
The Irish in the six counties are every but as culturally Irish as are those on the rest of the island, and you only have to travell around the place to realise that.
Any divisions there might be are deliberately enforced by arms, political ones, based on religion.
Catholics suffered severely since partition, despite your differences, that has never been the case in the 26 counties - the Irish are Irish and only deliberate British interference has ever changed that.   
Independence is full independence, not just for Ireland but for any nation - that's what the word means - free from restraints and interference of any other nation - and that is what both of you have consistently opposed.
If you are incapable of understanding this perhaps you shouldn't
be here until you have some substance top back your claims - you are still producing none - none whatever.
Do note ever accuse me of "inventing" anything ever again - I don't do that, I don't see the point in doing that, I don't have an axe to grind here, I'm not even a nationalist.
It's you pair who continually manipulate or ignore facts, take them out of context or, as now, never bother with them anyway and just proclaim your opinions.
As I said - we've been through the rest dozens of times - if you have any contrary evidence put it forward - not rule books, not what should and should not happen in Parliament, not what the manual says should happen - all of which are the nearest thing you pair ever come to.
By the way; enforeced or inveigled, or brought about by necessity conscription of one form or another is always a possiblity in wartime - that was the situaltion from August 1914 onwards - the threat of having to die on the battlfield was always a threat for Irish youth.
Jim Carroll