Keith
These are the details in full of the Cabinet meeting discussing the enforcing of conscription on Ireland.
They are interesting for a number of reasons.
They show how close Ireland came to conscription.
They show that Lloyd George intended to introduce conscription, no matter what the cabinet decided.
They show that they were fully aware of the link between the future of conscription and The Home Rule Bill.
And they also show that the British were first prepared to introduce Home Rule and then apply enforced conscription when that had taken place, committing Ireland to any war Britain deemed necessary.
I've put the full debate in (from Cabinet Meeting Papers researched by Carlton Younger) Truth to tell, I'm only bothering my arse about this because it turns me on to see you deny the same things over and over again - must be getting kinky in my old age!!
Now, for the last time
Jim Carroll

……as Home Rule had been carried in Parliament. It would be a mistake not to take the necessary powers until after the Home Rule Bill was through as the Irish might resist Home Rule. "We must not give them that incentive," he said. And, with less of his earlier forthrightness, he declined also to undertake categorically to postpone the application of conscription until the Home Rule Bill was through. Here was the usual Lloyd George loophole; having stated his intention, he reserved the right to change his mind. It would take time to put conscription into force, he explained; they would have to improvise a register with the aid of the police. In the meantime, borrowed American troops would fill the gaps in the British Army, then British drafts would have to be drawn upon. Clearly, it was in his mind that, from then, only Ireland would remain as a source of manpower. His colleagues took up the argument, and the debate in the Cabinet that day is revealing.
Lord Curzon: We must stand or fall by both (measures).
Mr Bonar Law: How would you justify to the House of Commons delaying conscription? You can say, as the Prime Minister has just said, that time is required for machinery, but it must be made plain that the two Bills are not contingent.
Lord Robert Cecil: You will have to say the postponement is in connection with Home Rule.
The Prime Minister: I would say it will take time, and that time we mean to use to put through the Home Rule Bill.
Lord Robert Cecil: You will have to indicate that both will have to be worked together.
Lord Milner: It is our intention to proceed with conscription even if the Home Rule Bill is generally opposed.
Dr Addison: We can say, "You are getting the right of self-government, you must do your share to defend your liberties."
Mr Bonar Law: Suppose we start with trying to force both Bills through, and then find that Members of all kinds are opposed to the Home Rule Bill, how can you possibly carry if through?
Answering, the Prime Minister said it was "absurd to decide what we can do before the crisis arises. "
Mr Churchill: The two measures should be regarded as independent, and be simultaneously introduced. I do not see the
advantage of delaying the application of the Military Service Act to Ireland. The dual policy should be loyally followed. I would press forward on the two roads. There is a great deal to be said against any delay in action once conscription is announced.
Mr G. N. Barnes: You have in the Bill a clause which would deal with the Sinn Feiners who are now drilling. That can be applied at once. I cannot assent to apply conscription willy-nilly without any guarantee of Home Rule. I shall have to reserve the right to reconsider the position later.
Lord Robert Cecil: I do not know what the Cabinet's scheme of Home Rule is. Many of my Unionist colleagues are in the same position. I am anxious to get conscription through in Ireland, and am prepared to pay a high price to get men in this emergency.
The Prime Minister: I can only say, in a general way, that our scheme will proceed on the lines of the Cabinet letter, with safeguards for Ulster in the shape of an Ulster Committee.
Mr Bonar Law: You do not ask your colleagues to commit
themselves today to the form of the Home Rule Bill.
The Prime Minister: That would be hardly fair.
Mr Herbert Fisher: Has not the Government given a pledge to proceed if there was substantial agreement at the Convention?
The Prime Minister: I do not think you can say that 44 to 29 is substantial agreement. We are now going on the other line: that, failing substantial agreement, the Government will produce a Bill, and in that Bill we must make provision for Ulster.
Mr Bonar Law: It is absurd to ask Ministers to commit themselves now.
Mr Churchill: That is a hard saying. The enforcing of conscription on Ireland is a rupturing of political associations and involves a complete new orientation of antagonisms, and therefore it is folly not to see how grave that decision is. I could not agree to that unless our Unionist friends come with us on the other measure, which profoundly affects opinion here, in Ireland, and in the United States. It is hard that we should commit ourselves to conscription unless we can count on cordial agreement among our Unionist colleagues that they will go forward in support of Home Rule with equal energy. Dr Addison concurred.
The Prime Minister: That is the policy of the Government. The Cabinet have agreed to a definite plan.
Mr Bonar Law: But the letter gives no definite plan.
The Prime Minister: Unless we follow the lines of the Cabinet letter and the Cabinet agreement, then I cannot put forward conscription for Ireland on Tuesday.
Mr Bonar Law: It depends upon the form in which the principles of the letter are put in the Bill.
Lord Curzon: We have accepted the broad principles of the letter, and our colleagues are entitled to see the letter.
Mr Bonar Law: It must depend on whether the Bill carries out the principles of the letter.
The Prime Minister: That is a different matter.
Lord Milner: I am prepared to accept such a Home Rule Bill as conforms generally to the proposals put forward in the Prime Minister's letter to the Convention. It is very hard for us to support such a Bill if Ulster opposes it, but I am prepared to do that and to put forward every effort in support of the Home Rule Bill but I am not prepared to abandon conscription even if we completely fail with the Home Rule Bill. Mr Barnes: Why not put both in one basket? I am voting for conscription because I am thereby hoping to get Home Rule. If not, I shall have to reconsider my position.
Lord Robert Cecil: If I vote for Home Rule it is because I hope thereby to get conscription.
Mr Barnes: If we fail we can go to the country.
The Prime Minister: We could not do that. The Government can go if we fail.
Lord Derby: We must stake our existence on passing both Bills.
Mr Herbert Fisher: Are you definitely satisfied that there is a military advantage in applying conscription to Ireland? I feel absolutely with you as to the bad effect on English public opinion of continuing to exempt Ireland; but we should look at it as a cold military proposition. English public opinion is sound. Our artisans will do their duty. You have to decide whether it is worth your while to enforce conscription in Ireland and thereby perhaps obtain disaffected elements for your army.
Lord Derby: They will be distributed through the army.
The Prime Minister: That is the one consideration that chiefly worried me. Is it worth while in a military sense? You will get 50, 000 at any rate, at a minimum, who will fight. These five divisions will be made up of excellent material, of young men up to twenty-five, at a time when we are taking old men.
Mr Churchill: I have not met one soldier in France who does not think we shall get good fighting material from Ireland. I think the decision of the War Cabinet is a battlefield decision but a wise one.4
The new Military Service Bill was introduced in the House of Commons on April 10th. On the same day a telegram from Duke warned the Government that de Valera was urging on the Sinn Fein executive that it would suit their policy if conscription came, for they could then take systematic and violent opposition to its enforcement. According to the Chief Secretary, de Valera was advocating a policy of the stoppage of all transport work and the shooting of the recruiting authorities whether Army or Royal Irish Constabulary.5
In the Commons the Bill was vehemently opposed by the Irish Parliamentary Party, led by Dillon since the death of the brokenhearted John Redmond in March, and in protest they marched out of the House. There were misgivings still in the Cabinet.6 Barnes said he had "always understood that the policy of the War Cabinet was, firstly, to stand or fall by the two Bills", and "secondly, that military service was only to be applied in Ireland after an interval during which a measure of Home Rule could be passed." He was particularly concerned that the Home Secretary's speech had been "in favour of compulsory military service pure and simple."
Lloyd George answered that in his own speech, he believed, he had made the position clear, but he had thought it inadvisable to make too many references to Home Rule. But Barnes "could not forget the evidence which had been given before the War Cabinet by responsible men to the effect that conscription without Home Rule was out of the question." The Cabinet decided that the Home Rule Bill should be immediately prepared. Their thoughts turned now to the possibility of enlisting volunteers in Ireland "to meet the critical situation." Any approach to the Nationalist Party by the War Cabinet would be useless, but representations by the Labour Party might possibly produce results.