The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #45911   Message #3791345
Posted By: Teribus
20-May-16 - 12:57 PM
Thread Name: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Subject: RE: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
The Irish people have been struggling for independence for many centuries, 1798 being a major milestone, when it turned to Revolutionary France for support, all of the attempts ended in failure and resulted in Britain tightening its grip on Ireland.

Doesn't really match up, I don't think the "Irish people" gave a rats, Down through those centuries you had self-serving Irish Noblemen attempting to advance themselves, but please, please, please do not suggest they were doing anything for Ireland or its people. Hugh O'Neill was one of the worst. The Duke of Ormond was another.

As you say 1798 was a bit of a break with tradition, up until then it had primarily been Spain who had conned and duped the Irish into revolt, in 1798 it was the French who did much like the Spaniards before them and exactly the same as the French had been doing in Scotland for centuries - Promising much and delivering little - and the Irish "revolutionaries" exactly like their Scottish counterparts were mug enough to believe them.

"Is it to be part of the policy and programme of our party that, if returned to power, it will introduce into the House of Commons a bill for Irish Home Rule? The answer, in my judgment, is No." - Herbert Asquith

What a great pity that you took that out of context and failed to give Asquith's reasons for stating that. For Asquith and the Liberals to stay in power for the Parliament we are talking about here he relied on forming coalitions, Irish Home Rule was not a very popular notion and had he stated he was going to introduce another Home Rule Bill then it would be highly unlikely that his Government would have lasted very long.

The support of the Irish Nationalists was essential to Asquith's government after the January 1910 election deprived him of the Liberal majority in the Commons. Keeping Ireland in the Union was then the declared intent of all the parties, and the Nationalists, as part of the majority that kept Asquith in office, were entitled to seek enactment of their plans for Home Rule.

The cabinet committee (not including Asquith) that in 1911 planned the Third Home Rule Bill opposed any special status for Protestant Ulster within majority-Catholic Ireland. Asquith later (in 1913) wrote to Churchill, stating that the prime minister had always believed and stated that the price of Home Rule should be a special status for Ulster. Nevertheless, the bill as introduced April 1912 contained no such provision.


This unamended Bill introduced in April 1912 received Royal Assent in September 1914 when it became the Government of Ireland Act 1914 which remained unaltered and unamended until it was repealed and replaced with the Government of Ireland Act 1920.

In the final paragraph of the post we get:

The Bill was put on ice (never fully agreed and never enacted), and was eventually sabotaged by Lloyd George, who altered one of its main conditions, unilaterally and secretly changing the negotiated clause that partition should be introduced for six years, at which time it should become fully independent.

What Bill was put on ice? When was it put on ice? Immaterial whether of not it was fully agreed as a Bill it could never be enacted, as for something to be enacted it first must be an ACT, i.e. the Bill giving birth to it has to have been through the Commons and the Lords the prerequisite number of times amended as required and fully agreed before it gets Royal Assent which then makes the Bill an ACT.