The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #45911   Message #3791452
Posted By: Teribus
21-May-16 - 06:07 PM
Thread Name: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Subject: RE: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
All this is your opinion - all your own work"

Nope not all is opinion quite a bit of fact in there too. I have already learned that there is no point in providing links for you as you do not open them and read what they contain. I normally do state where I get my information from and it normally is presented in context and in order, you do not even acknowledge it when a reference is given.

Self-serving noblemen/chiefs? Not merely opinion by any stretch of the imagination examples of them litter the history of countries right across Europe - In Ireland they were no different.

For the catalogue of how France and Spain cynically used disaffected elements in both Scotland and Ireland read N.A.M. Rogers book "Sovereign of the Seas". Again not just opinion. These two super-powers any time they were involved in any conflict, normally with each other, that included either England or Great Britain, or whenever it was important for them to influence England or Great Britain they would try to divert attention away from Europe by instigating trouble at home for Britain. As stated previously they always promised much and delivered little, not always entirely their fault as to get any significant aid delivered they had to come by sea and to do that they had to get past Britain's Navy, which from 1690 onwards just got stronger and stronger. It was British Naval Intelligence that broke the German codes that alerted those in authority in London and in Dublin, unfortunately they did not act on what was proposed on the 22nd April, if they had the Rising would never have happened – again not opinion Jim, that was basically what the Royal Commission into the Rising stated.

Asquith's quote - you provided the link, you just omitted to put it in context, you looked at the words used, but not the meaning, you only looked at it subjectively from one perspective.

To support your claim that the 1914 Act, a Bill that you originally claimed had never been passed, was altered you scroll out yards of script from conversations that took place two or four years after the fact and somehow expect everybody to believe they had relevance back in 1914. You are incredibly ignorant of Parliamentary procedure and insist that things were done, in a manner that they could not possibly be have been done, when challenged you either ignore the discrepancies pointed out to you (That's just your opinion) or you rant. Plain fact of the matter is the 1914 Act was never amended and the work done on Asquith's Amending Bill in 1914 records that both Redmond and Carson had come to an agreement that neither liked but both hoped they could work round in the six year period they had agreed to. The Easter Rising threw all that out of the window because by July 1916 Carson and the Unionists position had hardened. Try and identify any other cause, anything else that had happened in Ireland to have brought that change about. Not just opinion Jim just read your own sources and then place events in chronological order.

By 1920 the Unionists were back onboard again the two self-ruling entities to be known as Northern and Southern Ireland was intended as a temporary arrangement, but while those in Ulster agreed to it, in the South Sinn Fein opted for the War of Independence. That sealed the deal as far as the Unionists were concerned and when de Valera would not even live up to what his own Parliament and his own plenipotentiaries had signed it was obvious that th e North would secede.

PS: With regard to this comment of yours:

"Want to challenge anything that resembles actual, verified evidence"

Offer up anything that remotely resembles "verified evidence" and I will give it a go, but I think that you will find that whatever "verified evidence" you find will support what Keith A and I have been saying.

To Joe Offer:

I see that you are obviously having trouble locating anything that I have posted that says clearly and unequivocally that "I didn't think that Ireland was entitled to independence" – You won't because that is something that Carroll made up – You can't find it and neither can he".

One of two things you can do now is be honest and actually admit that I have never stated anything like that or continue to dance on the head of a pin. But every time you wriggle I will ask you for proof.

Humor me, and give us a summary of exactly what it is that you think about Irish independence."

Already done but obviously you do not read anything I post, even when that post is directed specifically to you:

Teribus - 20 May 16 - 05:05 AM
As stated by Keith A - I too am a great believer in supporting the right to self-determination for ALL.


Now tell me how I can state that any clearer than I have above – please detail anything ambiguous about that statement – or are you as obtuse as Carroll?