The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #45911   Message #3792420
Posted By: Teribus
27-May-16 - 09:21 AM
Thread Name: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Subject: RE: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
The outpouringsof these two are little more than a display of spiteful cultural hatred directed at a tiny handful of poorly armed and trained men who held the British Empire at bay for a week and ended up tweaking its nose so hard that it set the building blocks of the entire Imperial system tumbling.

If that is what you have to believe to give yourself some comfort then all well and good - it is about as far away from the truth as you normally get.

1: If you have any evidence of a "faction" among the rebels - please provide it.


The Irish Volunteers

Extract:
The Irish Volunteers (Irish: Óglaigh na hÉireann), sometimes called the Irish Volunteer Force[1][2][3] or Irish Volunteer Army,[4][5][6] was a military organisation established in 1913 by Irish nationalists. It was ostensibly formed in response to the formation of the Ulster Volunteers in 1912, and its declared primary aim was "to secure and maintain the rights and liberties common to the whole people of Ireland".[7] The Volunteers included members of the Gaelic League, Ancient Order of Hibernians and Sinn Féin,[8] and, secretly, the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB). Increasing rapidly to a strength of nearly 200,000 by mid-1914, IT SPLIT in September of that year over John Redmond's commitment to the British War effort, with the smaller group retaining the name of "Irish Volunteers".

The Redmondite faction became known as the National Volunteers. It was in September 1914 that your magnificent seven decided to collude with the enemy and stage a rising, they did that to save THEIR little movement from extinction.

2: If you have any evidence of the actions of Easter Week offending the finer feelings of a bunch of armed traitorous thugs to the extent that they forgot their manners - please provide it.


Governmment of Ireland Act 1914

Extract 1:
At the Bill's third reading on 21 May 1914 several members asked about a proposal to exclude the whole of Ulster for six years. Asquith was seeking any solution that would avoid a civil war.

Extract 2:
Carson and the Irish Unionist Party (mostly Ulster MPs) backed by a Lords' recommendation, supported the government's Amending Bill in the Lords on 8 July 1914 for the "temporary exclusion of Ulster" from the workings of the future Act, but the number of counties (four, six or nine) and whether exclusion was to be temporary or permanent, all still to be negotiated.

Extract 3:
AFTER the Easter Rising of 1916, two attempts were made by Prime Minister H. H. Asquith during the First World War to implement the Act. The first attempt came in June 1916, when David Lloyd George, then Minister for Munitions, was sent to Dublin to offer immediate implementation to the leaders of the Irish Party, Redmond and Dillon. The scheme revolved around partition, officially a temporary arrangement, as understood by Redmond. Lloyd George however gave the Ulster leader, Carson, a written guarantee that Ulster would not be forced into a self-governing Ireland. His tactic was to see that neither side would find out before a compromise was implemented.[13] A modified Act of 1914 had been drawn up by the Cabinet on 17 June. The Act had two amendments enforced by Unionists on 19 July – permanent exclusion and a reduction of Ireland's representation in the Commons.

Now can any body see the shift in the Unionists position from the one accepted on the 8th July 1914 and what they were demanding on the 19th July 1916 AFTER THE EASTER RISING.

In 1916 in Ireland there was only one group of armed traitorous thugs and fortunately their hash was settled in Dublin where through their actions they were responsible for the deaths of 485 people. The Ulster Volunteers by 1916 were almost entirely serving in the British Army alongside former members of the Redmondite faction of the Irish Volunteers.

3: If you have any evidence of Ireland being egged on by Spain and France to demand Independence - please provide it.

Spain - The Nine Years War

Extract 1:
Later in 1595 O'Neill and O'Donnell wrote to King Philip II of Spain for help, and offered to be his vassals. He also proposed that his cousin Archduke Albert be made Prince of Ireland, but nothing came of this.[9][10] Philip II replied encouraging them in January 1596.[11] An unsuccessful armada sailed in 1596; the war in Ireland became a part of the wider Anglo-Spanish War.

Extract 2:
In 1601, the long promised Spanish expedition finally arrived in the form of 3,500 soldiers at Kinsale, Cork, virtually the southern tip of Ireland. Mountjoy immediately besieged them with 7,000 men.

The Spanish tried three times to land troops in Ireland to assist Hugh O'Neill only the one detailed above was successful in getting troops ashore. The rebellion failed with a victory for the English at the Battle of Kinsale.

France - 1798 Rebellion

Extract 1:
The outbreak of war with France earlier in 1793, following the execution of Louis XVI, forced the Society underground and toward armed insurrection with French aid. The avowed intent of the United Irishmen was to "break the connection with England"; the organisation spread throughout Ireland and had at least 200,000 members by 1797.

Extract 2:
Despite their growing strength, the United Irish leadership decided to seek military help from the French revolutionary government and to postpone the rising until French troops landed in Ireland. Theobald Wolfe Tone, leader of the United Irishmen, travelled in exile from the United States to France to press the case for intervention.

Extract 3:
Tone's efforts succeeded with the dispatch of the Expédition d'Irlande, and he accompanied a force of 14,000 French veteran troops under General Hoche which arrived off the coast of Ireland at Bantry Bay in December 1796 after eluding the Royal Navy; however, unremitting storms, indecisiveness of leaders and poor seamanship all combined to prevent a landing. The despairing Wolfe Tone remarked, "England has had its luckiest escape since the Armada."[7] The French fleet was forced to return home and the veteran army intended to spearhead the invasion of Ireland split up and was sent to fight in other theatres of the French Revolutionary Wars.

4: If you have evidence of any of your crass claims - no artillery

Where and when did I say that there was no artillery? Had to go back to making stuff up again Jim? You on the other hand claimed that the British used Heavy artillery in Dublin - they didn't there was no Heavy Artillery in Ireland at that time it was all deployed on the Western Front.

5: a fair trial for Tom Kent
Tried by Court Martial in Cork as the Country was under both DORA and Martial Law, was that the same trial in which his brother was found not guilty and acquitted?

6: an army refusing to act if a bunch of Unionist thugs invaded part of Britain not being tantamount to a mutiny

Hypothetical Jim and hardly an Army, but I suppose you have proof that the Army would not have acted, besides Jim the Ulster Volunteers were raised in 1913 to counter any attempt by the British Government to force them into home rule from Dublin so which part of Britain were they about to invade.

On the 18th/19th March 1914 troops in Ireland were ordered North to guard six arms depots, the troops obeyed those orders and by the 31st March 1914 the six arms depots were reinforced and secured.

7: rioters setting fire to the whole of Sackville Street

RTE/Booston College Chronology of the Easter Rising 1916

Open the link and read and digest the entry for 20:30 on the evening of the 24th April 1916:

Looting continues in Sackville Street, and fires also begin breaking out in premises on the street.

Your claim was that Sackville Street was set ablaze by British Heavy Artillery - not true though was it.

Now scroll down through the link provided to THE ENTRIES FOR 14:00hrs and 15:00hrs on the 25th April 1916 the day AFTER fires were started on Sackville Street:

14:00 - The British have continued to rush troops into the city from across Ireland. During the morning the Reserve Artillery have arrived from Athlone

15:00 - British 18-pounder artillery based at Grangegorman Asylum opens fire on rebel positions in the Phibsboro area.

Keep going Jim and you will find that the first mention of artillery being directed at Sackville Street comes around noon on the 26th April 1916. By that time fires started by looters on the evening of the 24th April had been burning unchecked for almost 40 hours.

8: Ireland not being entitled to independence because of what happened in Norman times

If you can show me the post in which I said anything even remotely like that I would be utterly amazed.