"Ah the above was what Eamon de Valera thought was it?"
Who said it was?
I said they were the ideals of the new leadership - why pin it on personalities?
In fact, much of it was based on Parnell's dream of 'Home Rule'
"Tell me Jim did Dev ask the Unionists in Ulster about that"
Why should he ask an armed minority bunch of right-wing English extremists who have threatened Civil War if their demands were not met anything?
"the "MEN WITH THE GUNS" were sent out to "influence" things."
Do you mean the "men with the guns in the North or the men with guns in the South?
As the ones in the North were the first to arm and the only ones to threaten civil war if their demands were not met, it must be accepted that the "men with guns" in the South aremed themselves to protect Ireland from sectarian thugs.
" I rather think that that was done to prevent a Civil War"
No it wasn't - the British Government did nothing to contain the behaviour of the Unionist thugs, and did not even act when British officers threatened not to protect Britain against those thugs.
"In July 1916 Lloyd George gave Carson the assurance that the people of Ulster could not be forced into an independent united Ireland without their consent"
That's what I said they appeased the thugs at the expense of the wishes of the majority of Irish people
"Oh no they wouldn't, why should they be obliged to accept anything"
Because they were a minority bunch of extremists who were out to prevent independence at all costs and, when forced into a corner, reluctantly agreed on 9 counties, got their calculators out and gerrymandered it so six to give themselves a majority vote.
The proof of the Unionist pudding was in the eating when it launched a half-century reign of terror on one third of the six counties
Would you support giving independence to The Home Counties, especially if it was under teh control of armed thugs?
Are you saying you actually support these people - we really need to know?
"Why should Britain do that?"
Why - because they were responsible for how they left Ireland, Unionism was an right-wing British creation (today's Conservatives still officially calling themselves "The \Conservative and Unionist Party" despite threats of Civil War, and open persecution of large numbers of British citizens.
What Raggy just said several million times over.
Jim Carroll