The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #45911   Message #3794537
Posted By: Teribus
09-Jun-16 - 03:21 AM
Thread Name: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
Subject: RE: BS: Easter Rising - April 24-29, 1916
A few more:

10: You stated that the threat of conscription played a significant role in the rising. Yet it was pointed out to you:

(a) That the decision to mount a rising was taken by the IRB at a meeting held on the 4th September 1914 (Source: History of the IRB)

(b) That when Great Britain declared war on Germany in August 1914 conscription did not exist.

(c) That when conscription was considered it specifically excluded all males who did not reside in Great Britain (Source: Military Service Act 1916) from which the relevant passages were quoted and reference made to the Act itself, all of which you could have checked. The Military Service Bill was introduced in the Commons in January 1916 and passed into Law to become the Military Service Act 1916 on 1st March 1916. As planning for the rising had already been in train since the 4th September 1914 conscription could have played no part at all in it. The Derby Scheme that was used to test if conscription was necessary did not extend to Ireland so any rational thought process would have indicated that neither would conscription when the Derby Scheme showed that conscription was necessary.

What happened AFTER the rising can have no bearing at all on what excuses were used to justify the material destruction and loss of life in Dublin that Easter.

11: You stated that those Court Martialled and executed were not guilty of treason, and that they were not charged with treason. I provided links to the Treason Act and pointed out to you, providing direct quotes from the text, that they were charged with offences under the provisions of the Treason Act.

12: You claimed that the Courts Martial were illegal - I pointed out that under Martial Law declared on the 25th April 1916 they were perfectly legal in accordance with the Army Act 1914, Military Law and under the provisions of the Defence of the Realm Act 1914.

The contention that in time of war you can form armed companies of uniformed men, declare yourselves to be an Army of an independent State and declare yourselves to be allied to an enemy state and at war with Great Britain then when it all crumbles and fails plead that you should tried as ordinary citizens before civilian criminal courts is bizarre to say the least. Waging war is not a game, it never has been. 3,509 people were arrested in the aftermath of the rising, around 1,800 were imprisoned, 90 were sentenced to death of whom 15 were executed and 75 had their sentences commuted to penal servitude for five years, all being released after about a year under a general amnesty.

Mistakes made? Yes instead of executing the leaders they should have been publicly disgraced, their disloyalty to their own men should have been demonstrated, their deceit exposed. Those imprisoned should have been held until after conclusion of hostilities with Germany.

13: You claimed that the rising had no effect on Unionist views. Both Keith A and myself provided links, sources and quotations that showed when agreement in principle was reached by both Unionists under Carson and Nationalists under Redmond was reached - we even gave you the date (8th July, 1914). Links and quotations supplied by yourself, combined with the above (You cannot just shrug and pretend it didn't happen because it did, it is a matter of record, the 1914 Home Rule Bill could not have been passed without it happening) demonstrate the following:

(a) Agreement in principle reached 8th July 1914 regarding a six year temporary exclusion from direct rule from Dublin for Ulster.

(b) Easter Rising 24th to 29th April, 1916

(c) "Crucial Meeting" of the Ulster Unionist Movement in May or June 1916 which resulted in

(d) Demand for permanent partition on 19th July 1916.

There was only ONE THING that happened of any consequence in Ireland between the 8th July 1914 and the 19th July 1916 that could in any way have influenced a shift in attitude between Unionist and Nationalist camps - the Rising - to state anything else would be ludicrous. The rising undoubtedly hardened attitudes on both sides and more or less guaranteed that Ireland would be partitioned.