Jim Carroll - 09 Jun 16 - 03:25 PM

Start taking more water with whatever you are drinking Jim.

Otherwise, typical Carroll incoherent rant.

"It made Prof. Richardson say she wanted to join IRA until she learned the truth." - is a more correct way of putting what Professor Richardson said.

Richardson says no such thing - she said she nearly joind the IRA afetr she was taught - she never said that what was taught was a lie.

Jim I think the hint that it was a lie is that bit where she said "until she learned the truth".

Kinealy (Still can't get the name of this favourite Irish Historian of yours right JOM) makes many errors of omission, she details correctly that the bulk of the population drop came about through emigration then makes the mistake of lumping together 1 million dead and makes no attempt to differentiate between those who died from diseases that at the time were incurable (And would remain so for another thirty years) and those who died from lack of food. He history is flawed in as much as she concentrates of what should have been done and not what actually happened at Government level. She does not concern herself with detail, unfortunately those actually dealing with the disaster had to Kinealy simply skips over it and so have you Jim.

Drop in population during Woodham Smiths "Great Hunger" from 8.5 million down to about just over 6 million (Drop of about 31.5%) Drop in population in the previous Great Famine in 1740-41 was 38% - that was the one where they say everyone was saved and disaster averted because they banned the shipment of grain out of Ireland (Another "myth") Here is what actually was banned:

"A government official, the Duke of Devonshire, in an unprecedented move on 19 January 1740, prohibited export of grain out of Ireland to any destination except Britain".

But in 1845 to 1849 it was only the potato harvest that failed not once but three times.

In 1740 to 1741 it was the potato harvest and cereal crops that failed simultaneously in conjunction with an extremely severe winter

In both cases disease was the main cause of death, NOT starvation. And the problems that presented themselves in both was the same - lack of infrastructure to transport, store and distribute food to where those who needed it were - Kinealy doesn't even touch on it. You see those are practical problems, the detail below Government level and Kinealy isn't very good on detail.

But Jim mentioned Cromwell, but of course it wasn't just Cromwell was it and it was during this period that the population dropped by not 31.5%, not 38% but by 41% this percentage caused by war, famine and disease where both sides employed scorched earth tactics to deny their respective enemies food, forage and support. But all this was par for the course in these times as demonstrated by what was happening over in Europe the Thirty years War was coming to an end. An event "classified as the last of the European wars of religion. It was one of the longest, most destructive conflicts in European history, resulting in 8 million civilian deaths from famine and disease.

Critics of Kinealy's work say her forte is in the policy of handling disasters yet even with all the machinery, equipment, communications, support and awareness in 1985 in Ethiopia ~500,000 died the world in 1983-1985 could not save them, in the mid-1600s, mid-1700s and mid-1800s it all must have been that bit more difficult.