The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #160697   Message #3812413
Posted By: Steve Shaw
02-Oct-16 - 07:55 PM
Thread Name: BS: Feelings = Facts
Subject: RE: BS: Feelings = Facts
I haven't a clue as to whether Stanron or anyone else voted for leaving the EU because they are delusional, though the only possible alternative to it is that they have a personal vested interest in getting out. The vast majority of people, Stanron and Senoufou included for all I know, fell for a pack of lies about how much the EU "costs" us (figures fed to the public were wildly and quite deliberately exaggerated, and no account was taken in any case of the return we get for our input in terms of getting the skilled workers that we fail to train ourselves and the less fiscally tangible benefits from cultural exchange and free movement of people), not to speak of the squalid racism perpetrated by the brexiteers apropos of immigrants swamping our towns and villages, living on benefits, driving our wages down, taking over our housing and filling our schools with kids who can't speak English, etc. etc., and how we need to "take back control" (even though more people come to the UK from outside the EU, immigration that we could control if the brexiteers were telling us the truth, but which we signally don't control). Take away those packs of lies from the argument and there is not one rational reason on earth for voting to leave. I simply don't swallow the "educated brexiteers" argument. Start from the standpoint that the vision of a united Europe came about because no-one wanted any more of the kinds of brutal wars in Europe that uselessly killed so many millions, led to the Holocaust and impoverished so many countries for decades. I was never called up to fight and neither was my son, for which I'm eternally grateful to the EU and its predecessors. Yes the EU suffers from bureaucratic gigantism, but so does China, Russia and the US, and the EU is a damn sight more democratic than any of those (and, before I get shrieks of outrage from the US, the EU does not have a gun lobby that's more powerful than your President, a pro-Israel lobby of the kind that will turn any politician who criticises Israel into toast and an oil lobby that prevents advances in fighting global warming, none of them ever having obtained a single vote from the electorate, so spare me the Land Of The Free stuff for a minute). I'd remind yiu that, of the thousands of EU laws that have been passed down the decades, the UK has adopted almost all of them enthusiastically. If you think that leaving the EU will put up wages, help the NHS, stem immigration and generally make this country richer, then yes, you really are truly delusional.