The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #160877   Message #3821299
Posted By: Teribus
18-Nov-16 - 06:42 AM
Thread Name: BS: No poppies for me
Subject: RE: BS: No poppies for me
"so if in the heat of battle an officer or nco cracked under stress and started summarily executing soldiers for cowardice
to make an example to motivate the others to fight on.."


In such an instance pfr I would very much doubt if that Officer or NCO would outlive his first victim, surrounded as he would be by that man's friends all armed to the teeth. In a war, in a battle, getting shot at and killed by the enemy is one thing and totally to be expected, getting shot at at close quarters by your own side just would not be sanctioned, or condoned, or tolerated - individual self preservation clutches in.

During and after the First World War literally hundreds of thousands of letters and diaries were gifted to the Imperial War Museum. Soldiers, sailors and airmen of every rank imaginable wrote books about their experiences and even more were interviewed at length in the United Kingdom, in Canada and in Australia by those making documentaries on the conflict. Guess what pfr, out of all of that lot there is not one single mention of any summary executions ever having taken place. We know for certain that it happened in the French Army and also in the Italian Army there is documented evidence of that and names can be put to those executed in such a fashion - Now if it happened in the British, Commonwealth or Empire Armies how come nobody knows about it?

You say come on Teribus "Break out of your straight jacket and blinkers" - and do what pfr - invent history to suit contemporary fashion? - take part in inventing lies and give them credence while in the process blacken and besmirch the names and reputations of those long dead who can no longer defend themselves.

Now I will ask you again - on the "evidence" given so far if it was you who were about to die condemned by it do you think it sufficient? I most certainly do not.

"Brigadier-General Frank Percy Crozier admitted he ordered the shooting of sentries who fell asleep while on duty." - Jim Carroll

I would not put too much credence in whatever Frank Percy Crozier said, besides Jim it is on record that Frank Percy Crozier did request permission to order that and was told immediately by his Divisional Assistant Provost Martial that permission was denied and separate orders were sent to the APMs staff with Croziers Brigade that any such order given by Crozier was to be ignored. This has all been dragged up before by Carroll so it is nothing new.

All that having been said - a question for you Jim - How many sentries under Brigadier-General Frank Percy Crozier WERE ACTUALLY SHOT? Don't strain yourself too hard Jom - The answer to that question is - NONE

Crozier's books were controversial for their claims of doubtful factual accuracy. He was largely discredited and considered a nuisance by the contemporaries. - Source - Walker, Stephen (2007). Forgotten Soldiers: The Story of the Irishmen Executed by the British Army during the First World War. Gill & Macmillan Ltd. pp. 21–34. ISBN 9780717162215.