The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #148447   Message #3826851
Posted By: Jim Carroll
16-Dec-16 - 08:56 AM
Thread Name: BS: Syria: the new nightmare?
Subject: RE: BS: Syria: the new nightmare?
Working from the bottom of your 80-odd postings defending the British sales of ammunition and equipment, this is a selection of around a dozen
By this time you had returned to there being no proof of a licence for ammunition being issued, having gone through all sorts of excuses
The confusion of whether the shipment was ammunition or sniper rifles arose from Keith's:

"11 Feb 12 - 09:21 AM
But why do you ONLY criticise Britain?
Not Russia.
Not China.
Not Syria.
Britain is hardly in the same league.
You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles.

His mistake, not mine, though you were more than happy to claim it was my suggestion.
I'll take this as far as I have with your abusive postings, if that is what you wish – that seems to have done the trick – you made plenty more arrogant postings on that thread and there are several more you contributed to with your appeasement of sales of chemicals and equipment to this monster.
I do like your suggestion that Assad will be defeated – he's on our side now!!
Jim Carroll

21 Feb 12 - 11:59 AM
18: In mid-December Der Spiegel crew managed to smuggle themself inside the city of Homs where they witnesses Baba Amr district being completely under control of FSA soldiers with checkpoints erected at the edge of the district. According to local FSA commander Shabeeha and army snipers were positioned in approximately 200 places in Homs and were shooting on everything that moved in designated zones like Cairo street which runs through the center of the city.
There ya go "Christmas" - First mention of snipers shooting at people around the 18th December 2011 a good two years after some private individual received a licence to sell 7.62 NATO ammo to Syria. Now all you have to do is provide evidence that people shot by these snipers were armed with Austrian Steyr SSG69 rifles firing ammunition (Oh sorry, that should be "firing arms") supplied two years previously by an arms dealer based in Britain (i.e. NOT the British Government).

19: 24th to 27th December 61 people killed by artillery and tank fire - not by snipers - now tell us Jim-Lad who sold Assad the tanks and the artillery because so far they seem to have done the most damage.

20: Same old same old throughout January and February with tanks and artillery doing their worst. Assad's boys killing journalists did not help.

21 Feb 12 - 12:13 PM
Here's one for you "Christmas"
Place: Homs
Date 27th December, 2011
"Some 70,000 protests gathered in central Homs during the official visit of Arab League observer mission and were later dispersed by tear gas."
Number of demonstrators killed = ZERO"

21 Feb 12 - 04:30 PM
"You have proposed sending riot weapons to a murderous dictator,"
No I do not think anyone has done that. They have merely pointed out that it is better to confront a demonstration with non-lethal means than with tanks and artillery as Assad has done. But just to get things perfectly clear here, the murderous dictator we are talking about is Bashar al Assad of Syria, the same man and regime that supplies and supports Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza
"You have consistently denied documented evidence of weapons supplied by Britain"
Documented "evidence"?? What documented "evidence"? Newspaper articles that when you actually read them show nothing of the kind.
Don't ever sit on a jury "Christmas" whoever the accused was would be well and truly stuffed - you would not know "evidence" if it jumped up and bit you.

24 Feb 12 - 01:17 PM
So Jim-Lad,
As far as your original contention that Syrian civilians were being "slaughtered" by British weapons in Homs, what we have so far is this:
1: Britain has sold no weapons to Syria
2: The licence issued to a private arms dealer in 2009 to sell small arms ammunition (or small arms "arms", as you prefer it) was revoked in good time and there is no evidence that ANY ammunition was ever delivered at all.
3: The vast bulk of those killed in Syria since 6th May 2011 have been killed by shells fired from tanks, artillery, mortar rounds, RPG-7s and small arms predominantly AK-47 Assault Rifles. Most of which are supplied by Russia or China.
As to why the UN is reluctant to act? There can be no UN Security Council Resolution to mandate action as happened in the case of Libya due to Russian and Chinese use of their veto powers.
End result Assad and his regime will collapse, but it will be a long and bloody struggle to finally get what the Syrian people want.

25 Feb 12 - 11:18 AM
Ammunition, Christmas, small arms ammunition.
The "sniper" bullets were your spin not mine, because they are not "sniper" rounds at all just standard rifle ammunition. So if they are in your eyes classified as "sniper" bullets then ALL bullets are "sniper" bullets - fits in nicely with your equally ludicrous "small arms arms" thing.
"White Phosphorus"?? According to the Convention on certain Conventional Weapons and the Chemical Weapons Convention - neither list White Phosphorus as a Chemical Weapon - I will take their word for it (After all just who the fuck is Jim Carroll to tell the world anything)
"Agent Orange" - classified as a defoliant not a Chemical Weapon.
"they are not even being "slaughtered" by British ammunition."
Where is your proof that they are being slaughtered by British ammunition - you have offered nothing apart from newspaper articles referring to the fact that a licence had been granted, not that anything had actually been sold, or delivered.

25 Feb 12 - 01:35 PM
"It really doesnt matter how long the ammunition sold to Syria lasted"
F''kin well does if you are trying to tell us that a small amount of ammunition that might have been "bought" two years ago is currently being used to kill people today when it was sold to a country whose army is 220,000 strong.
So hidden in amongst all that froth:
NO WEAPONS SOLD TO SYRIA BY BRITAIN
NO PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT BULLETS REPORTEDLY SOLD SUBJECT TO A BRITISH EXPORT LICENCE WERE EVER DELIVERED
NO PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT THAT AMMUNITION IS CURRENTLY BEING USED TO KILL ANYONE IN HOMS

18 Mar 12 - 04:10 AM
Beyond mentioning and quoting a newspaper article you have produced no "evidence" whatsoever.
Do you faithfully believe everything you read in the Daily Mail Christmas - or just the bits you can use to feed your bias and bigotry?
Please quote where I have stated they were "sniper bullets/sniper rounds" - I think I can go back through my posts to this thread and find that I stated the exact opposite - i.e. stating that the 7.62 x 51mm is standard NATO ammunition that can be fired by the Steyr, but the Russian 7.62 x 54mm is a round specifically loaded for use in their sniper rifles.
1: The British Government has sold no weapons to Syria
2: That the 154 export licences issued by the British Government for anything being exported to Syria were all revoked in line with EU rules
3: There are no records of sale or delivery of the ammunition mentioned in your Daily Mail article
4: It was pointed out that the only type of ammunition that Syria could use fitted one type of rifle and the sale (If it ever took place) was for a tiny amount of ammunition and it pre-dated the Arab Spring type demonstrations in Syria by two years.



20 Mar 12 - 12:05 PM
Not a fact at all Christmas, my little plumb pudding. I can certainly find no record of any sales or arms or ammunition by the British Government to the Assad Regime in Syria.

20 Mar 12 - 07:06 PM
Ah, so in short, you have no proof at all that the British Government sold anything to the Assad regime in Syria. It was just something you read in a newspaper, and having read the passage you misunderstood it and got it all wrong - something that I bet is not too unusual for you.