Well let's just take a look at Teribus's shrugging defence of the electoral college. One example of what happened with what should have happened: Florida has 29 votes. Trump's side won by a whisker in Florida. So he got all 29 votes and Clinton got none. What should have happened was that Trump got 15 and Clinton 14. You correctly state that the electoral college allocation to states fairly reflects their populations. Well in Florida's case a 15 to 14 split would have fairly reflected the wishes of the people of Florida. Thought you'd be up for that.

"If I thought that the likes of Steve Shaw would ever have any say in teaching anything connected with politics to children, I'd have my children out of school in an instant and have them educated privately - oh hang on, wait a minute, that is exactly what myself and my wife (a teacher) did do and it turned out to be the best investment we ever made, worth every penny."

God, I feel sorry for them. Unless, of course, you're going to tell me that they all turned out to be ruthless capitalists who make their livings by ripping people off. Didn't want them mixing with the hoi polloi, eh? A mix of you and a public school bringing up the kids? God help 'em. Hope they're resilient!

"By the way Shaw, in this day and age, if people are totally ignorant it is generally entirely their own fault, you won't acknowledge that, but somewhere along the line taking personal responsibility comes into the equation."

And where do you suppose people should begin their political education? What resources do they have, bearing in mind that not everyone has a professorial-level brain? Without education, people are vulnerable to the Daily Mail and The Sun and soundbite-bigots such as Farage. My grandad worked in Salford docks and lived in council houses all his life but voted Tory because the priest in the pulpit told him to. You don't really understand education, do you? Was that because of a deficit in your own? It is not about "telling people stuff." It's about showing people how to grab information for themselves and how to make sense of it and how to be critical. My dad taught me to drive and I passed my test first time. Then it was up to me to gain experience and turn myself into a safe, competent driver. Without those early lessons I couldn't have done that. People need a start and that applies to education for politics just as with everything else. The political establishment, especially on the right, has a vested interest in keeping people ignorant, denying them political education. Ignorant people are far easier to manipulate and persuade by means of superficial half-truths or downright lies. Your kneejerk reaction, suspecting anyone suggesting political education in schools of being a red under the bed, is facile and fully indicative of your own long-time submission to indoctrination. Never mind. We'll stick with silly "citizenship tests" instead that require you to know who followed Henry VIII and what city the Beatles came from, then take oaths of allegiance under a flag with your arm across your chest. God save the Queen! Gahd bless Merka!

And what do you think of old Winston's comment about the ignorance of voters? "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."