The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #161905   Message #3851332
Posted By: Jim Carroll
19-Apr-17 - 08:25 PM
Thread Name: BS: Mass murder of defenceless civilians
Subject: RE: BS: Mass murder of defenceless civilians
"my opinion is that you are cherry picking your nasties."
So are you
"you are completely ignoring the racism racialism that was bedrock to the Nazi philosophy"
Just as the British leaders (including a King) did when they kissed Hitler's backside
Nazi racism was well underway when Britain was appeasing Hitler - go find a copy of The Daily Mail.
"Likewise Stalin found whatever he needed to establish his gulag,"
I have pointed out that the Gulags were around long before the Bolsheviks were a twinkle in anybody's eye - Tolstoy based one of his finest novels around them - Trotsky escaped from them on two occasions - Stalin took them over ready-made.
"He backed away from war with Germany because the Germans had helped put him in power. "
Sorry Robo - you really have swallowed Cold War propaganda hook, line and sinker.
The revolution took place because the soldiers turned and walked away from the front, refusing to fight - they were joined by starving workers and peasants.
Russia was well out of the war before six months before the Bolsheviks too control
Germany brought Lenin back from Russia as a move to ensure that they stayed out - no deal, no negotiations - the walk-out occurred in May.- the Bolsheviks didn't gain control till October.
"Stalin made 'peace' with Hitler so both could divide up Poland"
An arguable point
Some historians claim that Stalin made peace with Germany because they were in no position to do anything else - they had nowhere near enough arms to oppose the German army, but they shortly became capable
Depends on who you believe, I suppose.
Freedom of speech was never "opposed" as such
Stalin turned on his political enemies and by and large, the Russian people fell for it hook, line and sinker, believing the opponents were "ultra-lefts" working with Germany
The left was as much a victim of Stalin as anybody
It was a massive con job engineered by Stalin, not a suppression of free speech.
Stalin was idolized by the people, it was not until three years after his death, when Kruschev exposed Stalin's crimes at the The twentieth congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1956, that the truth gradually began to emerge.   
As Lincoln said, "you can fool some of the people some of the time..."
Sorry, Robo your "suppression of free speech" is as dodgy a claim as your brainwashing one.
Masses of human beings are just not like that.
Stalin was idolised by the people, he still is in his native Georgia - it was encouraging that idolotry that was the main point of Kruschev's speech - not thought control or suppression of the masses
The people were the ones he had to convince and he had a pretty uphill struggle to do do it.
You mention Koestler - a very moving author but an extremely dodgy individual ( a rapist, among other things)
Can I suggest a far superior work that, in my opinion, shows how Stalin managed to weave his web
Try the chillingly readable, 'Case of Comrade Tulyev', by Victor Serge, , from an author who was there and experienced what was happening first hand
Jim Carroll