No, it isn't either-or, as DMcG rightly said. The work of the police and intelligence agencies in cracking these terrorist rings is crucial and I believe that what we've seen them doing this week has been impressive, though we need to be a lot more pre-emptive. I'm never keen on the "we bring these things on ourselves" attitude. There is no mitigation possible for what happened in Manchester or for any other atrocity that hurts ordinary civilians going about their lives. But what's all this about "values," Keith? What values were we exhibiting when we napalmed Vietnam? When we ousted a democratic government in Chile in favour of a murderous dictator? When we funded the contras? When we do big business with a regime that represses women and beheads hundreds of people in public every year? When we propped up vicious military regimes in pre-Castro Cuba and in Portugal, Spain and Egypt? When we give a free pass to a country that steals land from a minority who get repressed and discriminated against into the bargain? When we invaded Iraq on a false pretext? Does all that represent your "values," Keith? It doesn't represent mine.