OK - one more time - are you trying to tell me that these things never happened:

1: Germany, Hungary and Poland carved up Czechoslovakia in 1938/39 (Note that Shaw it was not just Nazi Germany)

Did that happen? - YES it did - that makes it a FACT

2: With the additional armour it acquired from Czechoslovakia the German army when it attacked in the west in May 1940 overran Holland in 7 days.

Did that happen? - YES it did 10th to 17th May 1940 - that makes it a FACT

3: The German Army swept through Belgium in 18 days.

Did that happen? - YES it did 10th to 28th May, 1940 - that makes it a FACT

4: The German Army conquered France and totally defeated the BEF I 46 days.

Did that happen? - YES it did 10th May to 25th June, 1940 - that makes it a FACT

5: Were the countries referred to above more prepared for war in 1940 than they were in 1938? Undoubtedly more prepared in 1940 than in 1938 as by 1940 war had been declared which is also a FACT. Therefore it is both reasonable and logical to conclude that the German Army would have had an easier time in overrunning Holland, Belgium and France in 1938 than it did in 1940 - COMMON SENSE.

6: Was Great Britain more prepared to fight a war in 1939 than it was in 1938? Undoubtedly Chain Home fully Operational in the summer of 1939 - FACT. The RAF's fighter Squadrons equipped with aircraft in 1939 that were equal to the task of combating the Luftwaffe - FACT This revolutionary integrated air defence system, the first of its kind in the world became available in 1939 - FACT. This integrated air defence system proved to be the significant factor in Great Britain winning the Battle of Britain in 1940 - FACT. Without Chain Home and without the numbers of Hurricane and Spitfire Squadrons the RAF would have lost the Battle of Britain - Acknowledged FACT by those in command and by those who fought the battle (That also includes German pilots who fought in the battle Adolf Galland for one of them)

7: In 1938 Great Britain did not have a fully operational integrated air defence system - FACT. In 1938 the RAF Fighter Squadrons were equipped for the most part with obsolete biplane fighters that basically stood no chance at all in combat against the Luftwaffe Me-109E - FACT as demonstrated whenever those two types of aircraft did encounter each other in combat in 1939 and in 1940. Those FACTS lead to the undeniable conclusion that had the Battle of Britain been fought in the late summer of 1938 Britain would have lost.

8: Therefore the statement that without Chamberlain, Daladier and Mussolini getting agreement in Munich the war in the West would have started in 1938 - THAT TOO IS A FACT evidenced by the orders given the German General Staff by Hitler himself. Had the war started in 1938 Great Britain and France would have lost it evidenced by what actually did happen in 1940.

There is very little speculation in what I have stated Kevin, and the reason we got onto this subject is through Jom's inaccurate, misunderstood reading of history and his crack about Neville Chamberlain being the Prime Minister who no-one dares mention.

This from the Gnome:

Dave the Gnome - 01 Jul 17 - 12:45 PM

"So, if the French had not negotiated with Hitler the war would have begun in 1938 eh? You just don't get it do you. Nothing to do with what did happen but what could have happened."

No Gnome not what could have happened - that is what was ordered:

"General Ludwig Beck, chief of the German general staff, noted that Hitler's change of heart in favour of quick action was due to Czechoslovak defences still being improvised, which would cease to be the case 2–3 years later, and BRITISH REARMAMENT NOT COMING INTO EFFECT UNTIL 1941/42. General Alfred Jodl noted in his diary that the partial Czechoslovak mobilisation of 21 May, 1938 had led Hitler to issue a new order for Operation Green on 30 May 1938, and that this was accompanied by a covering letter from Keitel stating that the plan must be implemented by 1 October at the very latest." - Teribus - 01 Jul 17 - 03:39 PM

Now can you tell me what part of that passage picked out in bold is in any way ambiguous or unclear. Hitler ordered activation of Operation Green in May 1938 as a result of partial Czech mobilisation and the actual invasion of Czechoslovakia must take place no later than 1st of October. Without negotiations throughout the summer of 1938 with Great Britain and France, Germany would have invaded Czechoslovakia some time between May and September 1938 - in accordance with Hitler's orders.