The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162550   Message #3871675
Posted By: Richie
14-Aug-17 - 09:45 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Madam, I Have Come To Court You
Subject: RE: Origins: Madam, I Have Come To Court You
Hi,

The original (c.1760s) broadsides of "Madam" must have been popular in England by the 1850s. In his 1846 book, "The Nursery Rhymes of England, obtained principally from oral tradition," Halliwell gives this English version:

"MADAM, I am come to court you,
If your favour I can gain."
"Ah, ah!" said she, "you are a bold fellow,
If I e'er see your face again!"

"Madam, I have rings and diamonds,
Madam, I have houses and land,
Madam, I have a world of treasure,
All shall be at your command."

"I care not for rings and diamonds,
I care not for houses and lands,
I care not for a world of treasure,
So that I have but a handsome man."

"Madam, you think much of beauty,
Beauty hasteneth to decay,
For the fairest of flowers that grow in summer
Will decay and fade away.

Although missing the opening stanza, this short version has many of the core stanzas. It was published in several of editions of Nursery songs in 1846 and reprinted many times. In 1911 a version of "Madam" was titled after the Ripest Apple stanza. It was collected from Hampshire gypsies by Alice Gillington and published in her 1911 book of gypsy songs titled, "Songs of the Open Road":

Ripe is the Apple Love

Ripe is the apple love, that soon will be rotten, love,
Hot is the love that will soon be cold,
Young man's beauty will soon be forgotten,
Maids take care be not too bold.

"O madam, O madam, I have gold and silver,
Madam, O madam, I have houses and land;
Madam, O madam, I've a world of treasure,
And to be at your command!"

What care I for the world of treasure,
What care I for the houses and land?
What care I for rings and silver,
So all I gain is a handsome man?

Handsome men are out of fashion!
Young women's beauty will not stay!
like the fairest flower in the midst of summer
It will die and fade away.

Subsequently other songs with the Ripest Apple stanza were sometimes titled "Ripest Apple." According to Steve Gardham the Roud master title for "Madam" is "Ripest Apple" although it is at best a secondary stanza. An example of a version from the 1960s follows. Here is a version correctly titled Ripest Apples that was collected from Copper family:

   Ripest Apples

Ripest apples soon gets rotten,
Hottest love it soon gets cold.
Young man's love is soon forgotten.
Since the girls have been so bold.

Twenty, eighteen, sixteen, fourteen.
Twelve, ten, eight, six, four, two, none.
Nineteen, seventeen, fifteen, thirteen.
Eleven, nine, seven, five, three and one.

Though I never went to college, but I heard the poet say:
Twenty, eighteen, sixteen, fourteen, twelve, ten, eight, six, four, two, none.

The notes for Veteran Recording VT115 say: In 'The Copper Family Song Book - A Living Tradition' (1995) Bob Copper, while relating to his family's version of this song, says that this was the shortest song Jim (Copper) knew and he had developed a terrific speed in the chorus ' … Twenty, eighteen, etc.', and thereby frequently qualified for the free pint of beer offered by the landlord of the local inn to be first man to sing a song."

Richie