The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162917   Message #3883971
Posted By: Jim Carroll
23-Oct-17 - 04:04 AM
Thread Name: What is Happening to our Folk Clubs
Subject: RE: What is Happening to our Folk Clubs
It really needs to be said that the first published text is no indication whatever of the age of a song, particularly in relation to themes like this, which deal with subjects that were general to all sections if society and all times.
The same goes for 'Trees they Grow so High' and the academic conceit of linking it to Craigton or 'The Laird of Craigs Town
These were universal subjects - people were still making songs about arranged and enforced marriage right into the twentieth century in Ireland
The versions of these song are like birds in flight' unless they carry definite information we have no idea where they started out and even then, we don't know they haven't been adapted from elsewhere.
We recorded a cante-fable type story from Travelling man, Mikeen McCarthy, a prose version of the Child Ballad, Get up and Bar the Door.
The earliest published version of this is said to be the version in Johnson's 'Scots Musical Museum' (1787-1803)
We found a version of the tale in a collection which gave it as "an Indian tale of the greatest antiquity" (Lee's Folktales of the World)
More recently, we came across the same tale from Ancient Egypt, telling of two tomb robbers sitting in an opened tomb eating stolen figs and arguing who should get up and cover the entrance in case they were discovered.
I really do belive it is an exercise in the pointless to try and date most of these songs/stories
Jim Carroll

There was a brother and sister one time, they were back in the west of Kerry altogether, oh, and a very remote place altogether now. So the water was that far away from them that they used always be grumbling and grousing, the two of them, now, which of them'd go for the water. So they'd always come to the decision anyway, that they'd have their little couple of verses and who'd ever stop first, they'd have to go for the water. So, they'd sit at both aides of the fire, anyway, and there was two little hobs that time, there used be no chairs, only two hobs, and one'd be sitting at one side and the other at the other side and maybe Jack'd have a wee duidin (doodeen), d'you know, that's what they used call a little clay pipe (te). And Jackd say:
        (Sung)
        Oren hum dum di deedle o de doo rum ray,
                Racks fol de voedleen the vo vo vee.

So now it would go over to Mary:
        (Sung)        
        Oren him iren ooren hun the roo ry ray,
                Racks fol de voedleen the vo vo vee.

So back to Jack again:
        (Sung)
        Oren him iren ooren hum the roo ry ray,
                Rack fol de voedleen the vo vo vee.

So, they'd keep on like that maybe, from the start, from morning, maybe until night, and who'd ever stop he'd have to go for the water.

So, there was an old man from Tralee, anyway, and he was driving a horse and sidecar, 'twas' they'd be calling it a taxi now. He'd come on with his horse and sidecar, maybe from a railway station or someplace and they'd hire him to drive him back to the west of Dingle. So, bejay, he lost his way, anyway. So 'twas the only house now for another four or five miles. So in he goes anyway, to enquire what road he'd to take, anyway, and when he landed inside the door, he said: "How do I get to Ballyferriter from here" and Mary said:

(Sung verse)

So over he went, he said, "What's wrong with that one, she must be mad or something", and over to the old man. He said, "How do I get to Ballyferriter from here"

(Sung verse)

So he just finished a verse and he go back over to Mary and he was getting the same results off of Mary; back to Jack. So the old man, he couldn't take a chance to go off without getting the information where the place was, so he catches a hold of Mary and started tearing Mary round the place, "Show me the road to Ballyferriter", he go, and he shaking and pushing her and pull her and everything:

(Sung verse)

And he kept pulling her and pulling her and tearing her anyway, round the place, and he kept pucking her and everything.

"Oh, Jack," says she, "will you save me"

"Oh, I will, Mary," he said, "but you'll have to go for the water now".