The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #163812   Message #3913347
Posted By: JeffB
26-Mar-18 - 06:02 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Let No Man Steal Your Time / Thyme
Subject: RE: Origins: Let No Man Steal Your Time / Thyme
Thanks very much indeed Steve. Your efforts are much appreciated.

“The Encouraging Gardener” is obviously an ancestor of the song we all know, and I find it interesting that even at this early date the song was already being conflated with what we now call “I sowed the Seeds of Love”.

These old songs introduce more flower symbolism. Some are well-known even today - oak for endurance (it's not named as such in “The Encouraging Gardener”, though the verse from the Hammond collection has “Stand up! Oh, stand up my jolly oak!”), willow for sorrow, and rue for regret (the association is from just an accident of etymology). Less obvious are the marjoram, which stands for remembrance, and the gilly-flower. Wiki says the gilly-flower could be either the carnation, the stock, or the wall-flower. The carnation symbolises the ties of love, and the stock is for beauty. But as “The Garden of Thyme” says the gilly-flower grows close to the wall I suppose the wall-flower is meant, and it stands for “fidelity in adversity”.

I haven't heard of a plant called hope, but no doubt (like rue) it means what it says. And I don't know what the yellow pegell is either - the colour might be significant, but I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself.

Thyme remains a little ambiguous. Though it obviously means virginity in the songs, Jim Carroll's post about it standing for strength, either physical or mental, has merit too. After all, to resist the advances of jolly sailors or randy postmen, a girl is going to need a bit of strength of character, so perhaps there is a blending of meanings here.

I have to say though that I disagree that “The Garden of Thyme” could be close to an original source of “Let no man steal your thyme”. There is little textual similarity, and it ends with reconciliation, not regret and determination. Did you mean “The Encouraging Gardener”? I think too that “I sowed the seeds of love” is a different song, even though it is tacked onto “The Encouraging Gardener”. The verses are completely different, and the symbolism of flowers in “I sowed the seeds of love” is much more complex.

Thanks again.