To Susan:

I and my atheist friends don't find any need to go to over to Beliefnet and "converse". Some Christian fundies remove all incentive and save us the bother by coming over to "alt.atheism" on a regular basis to try and correct us in the error of our ways. You see, they are convinced that if they just "explain" things right, we will indeed see our mistakes and obviously come to know Jesus as our saviour and find eternal salvation. Well intentioned, I know, but nonetheless annoying (althouigh the more earnest and less lucid may make for good sport for a while). How Christian of them. I say that sincerely; one of the hallmarks of evangelical Christianity (and more or less of some other religions) is an imperative to "bring the Good Word" to everyone. As one rather cynical wag put it:

"Christian, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor." -- "The Devil's Dictionary", Ambrose Bierce

But this goes straight (so to speak) to the problem of Ashcroft and similar type souls: They have an unnatural urge to impose their beliefs on others, many times through dint of law. Not only that, but they are sincerely convinced that this is the "right" thing to do, and this makes them even more zealous. To lampoon them for their desire to impose their own selective vision of reality and morality on the country is, in my mind, in the _best_ tradition of our pluralistic, secular Unites States. I think you'd have to admit that no one has asked for Ashcroft to have his citizenship _denied_ to him, as Dubya's father at one time had suggested appropriate for atheists.

BTW, I actually happen to enjoy gospel music; I find the music -- and harmonies particularly -- manytimes awesome, and the sentiments upliftting (even if not my particular kettle of tea). I actually find that some of my Jewish friends take more exception to gospel music; it seems that their beliefs are more challenged or impugned by the messages behind the gospel songs.

FWIW, my favourite of all gospel tunes is "The Man In The Middle", by Tom "Harley" Campbell (although a number of others are right up there). Check it out.

Cheers,

-- Arne Langsetmo