The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3938409
Posted By: GUEST,Pseudonymous
20-Jul-18 - 07:29 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
I quite enjoyed the hyperbolic 'as old as time itself' (19th Jul: 2.54).

On the ghost of Hamlet's father: I pricked up my ears at this point remembering a Melvyn Bragg In Our Time radio programme about Shakespeare's Hamlet I listened to on the BBC iPlayer ap. So I went to Wiki to check what I remembered.

Shakespeare's play sees especially relevant as it was based on a Danish story about Amleth. This was set down in writing by a medieval Danish character called Saxo Grammaticus (c1160 - 1220), who was secretary to the Archbishop of Lund, Denmark's church being Latin at this time. Saxo seems to have well educated. This was a period of Danish expansion and also a time when 'Wends', a historical name for Slavic people living within or near Germanic settlement areas. (I believe that the term Wend crops up in Child?)

Saxo wrote "Gesta Danorum", an early history of the Danes. Saxo said it was modelled on Virgil, though wiki suggests others may have influenced Saxo incuding Geoffrey of Monmouth.

A sixteenth century French scholar retold/translated the story, which is believed to be how it came to Shakespeare. Shakespeare is also believed to have written an earlier version of Hamlet.

I mention this because it is an interesting example of how stories or legends from Denmark got themselves into English culture. In this case it seems reasonable to believe that translation by highly literate middle classes was responsible. And as we know, people of all ranks went to the Elizabethan theatre.

To me 'New Age' maybe means not factual, not based on reason or logic, which isn't what people reading 20th century works on folksong are about. It's about medicine made from herbs, and from mainly water with untraceably diluted bits of stuff in them, and not from properly trialled medicines. But maybe it means 'postmodern' in the sense of not involved with or following 'grand narratives' such as the ones that are told about/invoke folklore?

For me, it seems reasonable to disagree with some of what Harker said while accepting that other aspects of his work were good: this seems to be the approach of Roud, as I said last time we went round this circle.

I am guessing that Harker may have been less that respectful of MacColl and Lloyd, seeing them as old 'Stalisists' or some such, and that this is partly why he is so disliked in some quarters, though it won't be the only reason as Roud's comments show. Roud seems at one point to lump all the far right together.