The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #164528   Message #3939229
Posted By: Richie
24-Jul-18 - 04:59 PM
Thread Name: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
Hi,

The last two are versions of Child 12 are James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/11/34, Disc Side 034, 00:00

Lord Randal- sung Mrs (Margaret) Vass - no text transcribed and it's hard to hear and sounds like another song.

And---

    James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/8/1/B, p. 11502.

Lord Ronald sung by Mrs John Baird. No text just the melody.

__________________________

Some brief conclusions and I'll be working on other British versions and can perhaps better comment on how they fit into the Scottish timeline.

Lord Ronald is the overwhelming favorite name for the poisoned one and title. The location is usually vague: he's gone hunting or wandering- or, is at his sweethearts. Specific locations includes "wildwoods," "green meadow" "floonery (flowery?) fields" or the "woods." Many of the versions do not establish that Lord Ronald has gone to his sweetheart's (some do in the first stanza) until it's discovered when his mother asks when he got his dinner.

He eats a variety of poisoned fish (sometimes black or "black fishes wi spreckled bellies") and eels which are usually "eels boiled in brew." Only two versions have his bloodhounds missing because they've eaten the poison and swelled then died. As soon as it's established that he's eaten poison fish/eels and is dying, he makes his will giving his father, mother, brother and sister (usually in that order but it varies) different gifts. The gifts are all fairly standard. His sweetheart usually received a rope (tow) and a halter and will be hung on yon tree but sometimes she is poisoned then if she survives, is to be hung.

The 23 versions posted here are Scottish except one version is from the US (seems Scottish) and another (no source given) from Sweden (Den Illas Testemente).

Richie