Stupid, Keith. As ever.

I could agree with most of that, Raedwulf. When I kicked the thread off I was wondering when someone would cast doubt on the very concept of centre ground. It seems to mean whatever you want it to mean, and the term is gleefully usurped by establishment politicos in order to accord themselves some gravitas, some respectability. And if you're not in it, you're definitely non-U. You hit the nail on the head when you say that UK centre ground is somewhat at variance with US centre ground. I wonder what the Chinese see as centre ground...

I don't agree that votes are ever wasted or meaningless. Sixteen million "meaningless" votes mean that brexit stays on the table and is not a given. Labour not quite managing to ditch Theresa May, but gaining far more seats than expected, fired enough warning shots across the bows of the political establishment to very likely to change politics forever in this country. Their reaction, to redouble their efforts to demonise Corbyn, shows that they no longer feel secure.

And my personal politics are definitely not of the past. Marriage, mortgage, kids, schools, home ownership, ISAs... Come off it!