The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #140761   Message #4056814
Posted By: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
02-Jun-20 - 08:56 PM
Thread Name: Are racist, but traditional, songs OK?
Subject: RE: Are racist, but traditional, songs OK?
In the spirit of avoiding 'flame wars' which the forum guidance calls for, I'm not going to be drawn into returning fire on the personal insults and aspersions that you're casting - but I will extend the courtesy of taking your points one at a time.


1) 'I didn't say anything about staying faithful to the song'.

Your earlier comments tell a different story, Steve:

'I want to hear what the song was intended to be, otherwise I just might not want to hear it at all'

'I don't like seeing song words messed about with'

2) It's not my view that those are racially offensive words. Thankfully, it's the majority of society's view. Most importantly, it is overwhelmingly the view of the black community in general, and every black friend, colleague and neighbour I have now, and have ever had in the past. I have no inclination to break that covenant with the community that gets to determine which words are offensive to them, and which are not (which is a basic principle of standard equalities practice).

3) Curious point re: 'You want us to think you live in the UK' a casual glance at my previous posts would reveal links to my blog and Twitter, the town I live in, my job etc.

4) On the 'Guardian style guide,' good luck finding the use of any of those words that is not entirely framed around their offensiveness; citing their guidance whilst overlooking this key fact appears to be a case of wanting to have cake, and eat it? This inconsistency also seems present in your reluctance to tackle the points about Robeson's own avoidance of the language in question, having previously cited him as a reason to stick with said language.

5) In terms of pusillanimity - I don't find anything 'courageous' in using racial slurs without inhibition. I note that cursewords of the sort you've used tend to be deleted on the forum. I don't think they do anything to raise the tone of discussion. If it really is about 'courage', why not write to black colleagues, or to your council, or to Folk Against Facism, or Love Music Hate Racism, asking them if they'd endorse your wish to sing the song with those words?

6) I think dubbing a song in all liklihood written for minstrelsy 'a racist song' is fairly uncontroversial. As noted by me and any others, a song dormant 'in the record' is a historical artefact. A song performed in the present has the strong potential to be considered racist, especially if it includes the language we've been discussing, or other racial slurs.

7) Unless I'm mistaken, you appear to be calling me a 'white imperialist'? I've occasionally been called an anti-imperialist, but this is a new one, ha ha.