The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #33362   Message #444705
Posted By: Peter K (Fionn)
19-Apr-01 - 04:26 PM
Thread Name: BS: No such thing as British...
Subject: RE: BS: No such thing as British...
1 "The British and Americans are two peoples divided by a common language." If Kennedy said that, Bob, he was quoting George Bernard Shaw.

Firecat and Maggie, you could start by reading what Cook said (as set out in IanC's post). Where is there any suggestion that you can't be British?

Dave, I know you said you didn't want an argument about semantics, but that's what you're going to get if you claim Cook's remarks were "racist." You seem to think it's possible to be "racist" in good ways as well as bad, but I've never heard the term used that way. Surely racism means disciminating by race, and how can that be good? Racism is what that Tory MP (Townend) was flirting with, and it's a million miles from anything in Cook's speech. We'll have to see what, if anything, William Hague does about Townend, Forth and some other MP who have refused to sign the cross=party pledge to keep the race card out of the election cmpaigning.

Spaw, part of the diffiuclty with "British" arises from historical anomalies - not least that in the days of our former glorious empire and of the British Commonwealth that followed it, people in the British dominions and colonies were deemed British. (There was a disgusting phase in the none-too-distant phase, when those so-called British people could emigrate freely to Britain, provided only that they were not black!)

So that was one source of confusion. Another is that there is no "Britain" (or even "Great Britain") in international law. And England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are formally recognised only by some sports authorities etc. Our nation, as recognised by the UN, is the United Kingdom of Great Britain (ie England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland. So strictly speaking we are all United Kingdomers, or would be if it wasn't such a mouthful. Many Aussie, Kiwi etc object to being called British these days, and rightly so. And some who are British object to the term Brit, partly because it is sometimes used derogatively by, for instance, Irish people who (usually with good reason) are hostile to the UK.