The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #34997   Message #477189
Posted By: Peter K (Fionn)
05-Jun-01 - 08:36 PM
Thread Name: Further thoughts on Pearl Harbour
Subject: RE: Further thoughts on Pearl Harbour
LEJ, I don't think the UK took on Hitler to save the Jews. There was probably as much anti-semitism in the British establishment as in pre-war Germany. Also I'm not sure that things ever fall out quite as simplistically as you imply. I have pointed to a scenario in which there would have been many millions fewer (civilian) deaths, even if the Madagascar plan had still been superseded by the Final Solution. I can't be sure it would have panned out according to my plan, obviously, but it's a reasonable hypothesis. What I can be sure of is that absolutely no-one who was involved in opting for war - not even anyone on the winning side - predicted anything like the outcome that we have now got.

(Just by way of an aside to those who have blind faith in American moral superiority, it's worth remembering that the term "useless eaters" - coined by Nazi prison-camp doctors to describe the camp inmates - came in handy for CIA director William Colby, as a way to describe the people of Mexico.

Toadfrog, you said it. That really was a crazy idea you had. Surely in all that studying, you must have stumbled on the Stalin-Hitler pact. That should have given you one little clue about Hitler's regard for ratified treaties. Then there were those concordats he signed with the catholic church, to secure among other things the disbanding of Germany's biggest political party. Still, some of the detail will get overlooked if you're going to race through a higher-degree course in just 20 years.

Your pride in knowing Hitler declared war on the US suggests you might not be on the UK side of the water. I can't remember ever not knowing this, but during three months of travelling in the US I was surprised at how few Americans knew the sequence of events after Pearl Harbour (among those I met, at any rate). Since then, I'm afraid I've rather laboured the point, as here, for instance.

DougR, that book I mentioned turns out to have been by Charles Higham. On checking I can find nothing to support my vague recollection that it was banned in some states, so who knows - it stands some chance of being half right. Do you go along with censorship whoever's doing it, by the way, or only in the good ol' US of A?

Anyone interested in checking the extent of American funding for Hitler's war effort will find loads on the interne. (Maybe just check with the Republican brotherhood before dipping in though, Doug.) Try Bankrolling the Enemy for starters. (It's a hard site to read - it's easier if you download/paste the text into another file.)