The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #34710   Message #477548
Posted By: GUEST,UB Dan
06-Jun-01 - 10:38 AM
Thread Name: BS: Gas Prices II
Subject: RE: BS: Gas Prices II
Bartholomew,

I'm still a little confused on your main position, but I think it is that the utility companies should be government owned and government run...is this right? It also looks like you take this position because you believe capitalism is oppressive and exploitative, because of greed and because true free markets don't exist. Those who have an advantage will drive out all competition, obtain a monopoly and then provide inferior services at exorbitant prices. Did I understand you correctly or am I missing it? Below, I have also responded directly to some comments, but I want to make sure that I'm not just misunderstanding you or not getting the full picture.

"We need to decide whether electricity at "a just and reasonable price" is a right of the American citizen, as FDR's administration claimed. If it is, we need to treat the providing of electrical power like we do the providing of highways, the providing of national security, the providing of an education and the providing of mail service.
When public services are placed opened to market forces choices are diminished, not increased; there would be no rural mail service if it had to be done at a profit."

**What about providing food and shelter and telephones...these should all be rights as well.. Education and mail service both have competition from the private sector...and cooperation (the U.S.P.S. and Fed Ex are working out a deal to figure out how they can help each other. If there would be no rural mail service if it had to be done at a profit, there would also be no guaranteed overnight delivery, no immediate pick-up, etc...if profit was never a consideration. Also there are phones in rural areas...and yet the phone services operate for profit.

"I don't accept capitalism without socialism anymore. The only thing Free Market Capitalism has been good at is the production of STUFF. All it's good for is exploiting people and things with an eye on personal gain."

***Well, the production of stuff, employment, wages, capital....I don't accept socialism without capitalism, what has it been good for?

"Capitalism hasn't made us a better society. It hasn't made us happy. It has only made us "richer" in material comforts. It has created generations of asthmatics to come. It has created the bottled water industry. It has nearly buried us in our own garbage. It has turned citizens into criminals(If you don't think it's in the best interest of the liquor, plastics, tobacco and other industries to keep hemp illegal, think a little harder) and criminals into millionaires (what better example of free market capitalism is there than the cocaine trade?). And it is rapidly becoming the only game in town."

***A better example of free narket capitalism than the cocaine trade is bottled water...generally tap water operates under stricter guidelines than bottled water, yet people are willing to pay for it...what about the hoola-hoop, yo-yo's, supermarkets, malls...Why would a plastic companies care what their plastic is made of as long as they sell it and make a profit? If liquor and tobacco keep hemp illegal why don't they try to drive each other out of business. If it were legalized, I think you would find it sold under the Marlboro brand...Do you really think they have conspired against it...and all for capital gain...they'd make more money selling it if they could. Capitalism has made us a better society, more money, more research, more technological and medical advances...Yes bad things happen...yes there is pollution, but these things all exist in socialist and communist settings as well. I'm not convinced that the world is going to hell in a hand basket...and I'm not sure money is the cause. Instead of taking money away from people who have it, I think the answer lies in generating more for those who don't have it.