To CarolC: I was making the point that when an army puts enough resources and skill in the field, a hell of alot can be achieved. To say that we should be looking to ancient Rome completely misses the point I was making. In any case if you check your history, the western part of the Roman Empire may have gone down to the so called "barbarians" but the Byzantine Empire who regarded themselves as the true "Rome" survived until I believe the 15th century. In any case there are many who would argue that the Romans were far worse than the "barbarians" and if I recall correctly one such "barbarian" said of "Pax Romana" they "made a desert and called it peace." Don't forget the "Berlin Wall" by the way.