Well put, Carol. And Donue: thanks for trying to lighten things up. InOBU, McGrath, MaryMac and Sailor Jack still talkin' sense.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction... The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the darkness of annihilation.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Harry Whatsizname in Asimov's Foundation books:

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

--seed