While reading through the "bitter" babble, I got to thinking again about what Mudcat has become in more recent times. I am on the side of those with long experience here. Until recently, I had been a lurker for years, but never became a member. I choose not to join because I opposed the member/guest "solution" as too divisive and clannish, which is exactly what I think Mudcat has become.

It seems to me, the reason for so much bitterness is the above mentioned solution, and the fact there isn't a happy balance between posters of off-topic chatter, and posters in music discussions.

I have seen a very real decline in the overall courteousness of the forum, especially since those bitter rows about a year ago (which good Mudcatters now apparently won't discuss, just like the member/guest log-in). I say this with one finger pointing at the forum, and four back at me of course.

So, my question now is, is it futile (as in pissing into the wind futile) to honestly discuss forum problems with the intention of helping now? I am very bitter about this place because it seems that a certain group of members become more and more entrenched every day, and non-members and members who complain of the plethora of problems which some of us feel are the result of sustained warfare mentalites of the entrenched membership, just get shouted down by the majority of posters who come here almost exclusively for the non-music "feel good" chat.

I go back to the earliest days of this forum as a frequent lurker. I come for discussion of music and loosely related chat. While I have long enjoyed the narrower music-only focus of rec.music.folk, I'm beginning to realize the reason why I prefer that forum more and more, is because of the bitter and obnoxious tone here.

Yes, Internet forums do reflect "real life". I think that just as in "real life" it is significant that many former posters to Mudcat voted with their feet and left, when the member/guest log-in and the witch hunts began here. In real life, I don't spend much time in places with elitist membership rules and clannish witch hunt behaviour. I have spent time posting rather than lurking here in the past six or so months. Initially, I began posting to try and point out the negativity which seemed so prevalent last summer about virtually everything. When that was shouted down, I did become quite bitter.

Since I've seen no positive change in the forum dynamics, and I see no hope of the forum dynamic changing any time in the future (especially with the "privleged" log-in system), I thought I'd at least ask people here if they think it futile to bother with Mudcat reforms at this point, or whether it really is time for those of us with a different vision of what Mudcat could be to just fade away?