ah, the trouble with short posts...*smile*...it would take an hour of TALK to say well what I was trying to...

Bert...of course there are many sides to each story...and I really was not complaining about those 'just starting out'...(there was a lot of slack cut for me in my time!). It really depends on the setting and situation.....in our 'Open Sing', there is very wide tolerance for new & less-than-expert participants...but IF one wants to lead songs or sing in front of a group, it is a good idea to reach a certain level, or the experience is no fun for either singer or audience..(that need not be a terribly high level, but enough to get thru a 'recognizable' song)...I, myself, will win no prizes, but there are songs I 'know' that I simply cannot sing...and I will not inflict them on people.

As I said (or tried to say), my real grump is with those who show up over & over and seemingly make no effort to improve. It is far better to sing on choruses and in the shower until you reach a bare minimum...I am sorry if this makes me sound elitist in some way...I really do not make fun of new singers or walk out on them...I don't even care if they use notes or books if they are not sure of themselves, but when they cannot even read the song from a book and keep up the rhythm or tune, it is time to practice!

As to 'The ones who ... have several songs picked out to 'do' that night.'...this is less of a problem..*shrug*..but a little sense of where they 'fit' is always helpful.

"Not do a shanty after a ballad???
Or a ballad after a shanty???"....all depends *grin*... no law agin' it, but to be whammed between the eyes with "Ruben Ranzo" just as the last notes of "Sheath & Knife" are fading away IS poor taste. I know that it takes awhile to get a sense of how to make graceful transitions, but it is worth learning...

I suspect, Bert, that if we ended up singing in the same group, you would never have any idea that I was harboring such grumpy opinions *smile*...I do hate to offend anyone or hurt anyone's feelings, and I would do a LOT of silent suffering before I'd say anything...and then I'd try to be as tactful as possible. There is one well known and respected guy I sometimes hear sing (whom I like personally) who, frankly, is a real pro at taking every 3rd or 4th song in a large group with little sense of where it fits or who he is shutting out..and I have never said a word to him....he has some good songs, and he simply would not understand why I was picking on him...so...*shrug*

Maybe I am saying all this here because I would never say it in public and embarass anyone....