The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #54095   Message #836029
Posted By: GUEST,Richard Bridge with no cookie
27-Nov-02 - 06:14 PM
Thread Name: eBay (for guitar purchase)
Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
OK - interrupted twice. The seller had huge amounts of good feedback. The full story on the condition is this: -

1.        It is badly bellied. I measure the belly at about 0.3 inch in the middle of the lower bout with a corresponding depression round the soundhole. Some of the kerfing is no longer perfectly flush, and these things, coupled with the rust on the guitar case fittings leads me to suspect storage in damp conditions. Inside the face, now I have inspected with a mirror, there are many repair patches, and one ladderbrace is quite badly split.
2.        The truss rod turns to no effect. There is a forward bow in the neck, measured in the usual way, of about 0.13 inch. So the truss rod is stripped or broken.
3.        In an attempt (presumably) to fix the action, the saddle has been notched almost down to the bridge plate, and one end broken off.
4.        Some of the inlays on the neck (which look like plastic to me, not mother of pearl) are lifting.
5.        The finish on either side of the upper bout (about by the 18 fret) is badly marked. It looks like scratching rather than the resting of fingers and thumbs.
6.        The finish around the bridge plate has been badly re-lacquered. It looks as if the original finish was sanded off, and there seems to be stray glue. The inner bridgeplate is now a crude piece of plywood. I therefore think the bridge plate has lifted and been less than perfectly repaired.
7.        One machine head is no longer properly attached.
8.        The serial number has been rubbed out.
9.        The slot has been badly filed (or gouged) on the forward edge to take a wider saddle and will require routing to create a flat bottom and even width. This may have to be pretty trickily done to avoid upsetting the tuning at the octave too much (or maybe get it back to where it ought to be).

I have had a bit of a winge at the sellar and he said: -

"Thanks for your prompt E-mail. I'm sorry the guitar isn't quite up to what you expected but it seems future research might reveal some added bonuses. I have been a professional musician for 30 odd years and I have a weakness for old instruments, particularly guitars. However my passion doesn't stretch beyond the playing of them. I have very little knowledge of their construction or weaknesses beyond their playability. I bought the guitar in an auction in Cullompton, Devon. With it was an early Kay electric guitar which I have kept and in fact use on stage. I was unaware of the finer faults which your experience has revealed, I simply found it rather an awkward instrument, although I liked the tone very much. Faced with the option of spending more money on having it re-set etc or selling it. I chose the latter, mainly because it was surplus to requirements.
Regarding its history, I was told it came from a private vendor - not trade, and it had been discovered in a spare room on moving house. I can guarantee you that It comes to you exactly as it came to me, that is I haven't attempted any repairs, improvements or serial number shenanigans!
I wish you luck with it and I hope your misgivings prove unfounded."


Now the trick is this. Apart from the split ladderbrace and the patchwork top, the repairs are likely to cost fron GBP 135 to GBP 300, and since that would include putting new longitudinal braces in, the split in the ladderbrace is not then likely to be a problem. I may even be able to get away without a neck set, and if so take about GBP 65 off the top figure above.

The X-braced ones are very, very, rare, (like only 6 imported to the UK in '62 or '63, and 2 known destroyed) and these ladderbraces are rare or very rare. I've seen two other x-braces and none of these ladderbraces before. The X-braces sold for 99% of the price of the equivalent Gibson at the time. Within 6 months of my wife buying her identical (but x-braced) instrument she was offered 4 times the price of a Gibson D45 for it. Some big names who played our folk club have all much liked my wife's virtually identical (but x-braced) instrument. A J200 owner we know used to prefer it to his J200. I had a good look in Denmark Street the other week for soundalikes - not one. Two soundasgoods (but different), a Collings priced at GBP3,200, and a Santa Cruz at GBP2,700. Her instrument might be worth a bit on the heavy side of GBP 1K, or maybe even 1.5K.

So (I think) if I get this one fixed, and if I could get what it was worth (don't lecture me on supply and demand, I know that) I would still be many many quids in. I was ready to bid up to GBP 750 (thinking it was an x-braced) and it did not come to even a fraction of that. So I still think I'm ahead at the end of the day, but it has caused me a lot of heart-searching as I find each next fault.

I think I'm going to keep it, get it fixed, and still believe I came out on top. But if I'd been bid up to what the market price of an instrument in the stated condition had been, I would have been a lot less happy.

All's well that ends well. (maybe)

If the seller is reading this, I have not yet waived my rights in respect of the misdescription, and if you sugggest I have, I'll post your name!

I'll post back as the repairs get done...