I'm sorry I've come late to this thread, due to being away and reading long threads offline in order to keep my telephone bill down. I just didn't expect such a lively, frank and personal discussion under this heading. Everything I might have said has been said already, I think - mainly by katlaughing, Rose and Big Mick, and most recently by Jeri.

Just one thing: I can only speak from personal experience, of course, but I can't agree with the view that the 'gay community' is exclusive. Despite being heterosexual, I (and my mother, and others) have accompanied my gay friends to many places: gay bars, gay gatherings, gay porn cinemas and parks, because I wanted to learn about this part of their world, and they and their friends seemed to feel comfortable with me around. They, in turn, have gone to folk concerts with me. They've told me about their love affairs as I've told them about mine. (No longer, to be honest, but that's more a matter of not having l.a.s to talk about any more ...)

Great song, Roger! Yes, the words are familiar to me. Martin Niemöller wrote them as leader of the tiny part of the German Protestant church speaking out against the Nazis, calling themselves the Confessional Church.

I'm surprised, though, that Judy Small hasn't been mentioned in this thread. I first saw her at Tonder Festival in Denmark, where she told the audience as a matter of fact that she and her partner, Sue, had spent the past week travelling round Denmark and how much they'd loved it. She has written some wonderful songs about women, but only one I know is openly about lesbians, and to my mind it highlights a very pertinent problem.

NO TEARS FOR THE WIDOW

I never saw my mother cry until the night my father died
Married nearly thirty years and the dying had been hard
I remember how the family came to share the grief the tears the pain
And how her friends all gathered round and all the black-rimmed cards

The funeral was a large affair, the civic fathers all were there
And mother held up stoically, she never shed a tear
But everyone there understood that she had entered widow-hood
And life would never be the same, her status now was clear

And there were tears for the widow, tears for the widow
For the woman who had lost her love and must carry on alone
And mother now writes 'widow' in the space on all the forms
It's part of her identity, like her grey hair and her name

My friend Amelia lost her love to cancer's slow and painful glove
The dying was no easier than my father's was back then
No black-rimmed cards came to her door, her grief and anguish all ignored
Except of course for closest friends who tried to understand

Her lover was described by all as a single woman living well
A tragic loss for family, taken well before her time
When Amy left the funeral home she travelled to their house alone
And sat among familiar things and wept into the night

And there were no tears for the widow, no tears for the widow
For the woman who had lost her love and must carry on alone
And Amy still writes 'single' in the space on all the forms
But she rages at the lie it tells and the loss that it ignores

And who can tell how many women live their lives in shadows
Unrecognised, unsympathised, unseen and disallowed
Who've lost not only lovers, but often hearth and home
For 'marriage' is a special word and only meant for some

And there are no tears for the widows, no tears for the widows
For the women who've lost lovers and must carry on alone
And life goes on but for them there is no space on any form
Yes 'marriage' is a special word and only meant for some

And while I'm at it, this is a song relevant, I feel, to this thread:

ONE VOICE IN THE CROWD

I've lived a life of privilege, I've never known what hunger is

I've never laboured with my hands except to play guitar
Middle class my middle name, life's been more or less a game
But in the end it's all the same, the buck stops where you are

And we are foolish people who do nothing
Because we know how little one person can do
Yes we are foolish people who do nothing
Because we know how little one can do

It's not my issue, not my scene, I've got to get my own house clean
I keep it neat and tidy just in case the Queen should call
Come back to me another day and gladly I'll join in, we say
And I'm just one voice anyway, just one brick in the wall

One brick in the wall you may be, one voice in the crowd
But without you we are weaker and our song may not be heard
One drop in the ocean, but each drop will swell the tide
So be your one brick in the wall, be one voice in the crowd

And we are foolish people who do nothing
Because we know how little one person can do
Yes we are foolish people who do nothing
Because we know how little one can do