LH Sorry if I have come off as a ranting pompous bastard in previous posts, but What I have a hard time dealing with is the sniping, the oversimplification of complex issues, and the undertone that whatever problems we have, be it health care issues, economy, world peace, even potholes in the road, it is all because of the fatcat Conservatives, and although I will assure you that there is an enormous amount of corporate greed, and many other things that are in large part caused by or contributed to by the right, I just would like the radicals, liberals, environmentalists, etc. to sometimes admit to sharing the blame. Healthcare is an issue that I am close to, and I will tell you, I have a good friend whom is a family practice physician, who rarely doesn't end up going back to the hospital, sometimes getting only a few hours sleep because in our society, the doctor is responsible for his patients....If he doesn't ,the patient has the choice and rightly so, to find someone who will be there for him. Jump ahead to a situation as we have here in the local health department. Physicians, trained the same way, from the same nation, but are on a salary that means 8am to 5pm. They get paid whether people are happy or sad. Do you think that guy is as likely to go to the hospital in off hours?? Well, by rights he should, but the reality is that as human beings, we tend to be a little lazy and we do what we have to and nothing more. I had disc surgery 3 years ago.Know how much time I took off? Less than a week. Why? Because I own my business and there were bills to pay. I took a hospital bed to my office, and was able to be in the building so my dental hygienists could work (they must have direct supervision in my state) So enough cash was brought in to keep the place afloat. Greedy ? no, I don't see it that way. You see I have 7 employees that depend on their paycheck so they can make ends meet. If I worked for a socialized system or for a government agency, you better bet your ass I would have been at home resting better than I was. Except for that hospital time I have missed about 3 days of work in 19 years. Greedy?   NO, I think I am acting responsibly to do my part. I am not trying to put myself on some kind of pedestal for being wonderful   Just telling you the way I see it. The local health department has a crisis in dentistry . they have a full time dentist drawing a salary of $80,000+/-, and the dentist does practically nothing except knows how to play the system to make it appear fabulous on paper. they asked me to be on a committee to deal with the crisis, how could they hire another dentist and solve the problem I said, simple, give the dentist a base salary and motivate him or her with a $$$ incentive to work hard. Oh that is impossible, can't be done in a government organisation like the health department. THey still have a problem, but I helped organise a program where most of the dentists in the area donate there time to see indigent patients for free. Human nature is the missing link from most liberal ideas (*Which by the way I normally agree with in theory) ir reality being effective People will develop a scheme to beat the system. I know there are lots of fabulous people who are liberals who truly live the life , helping others all they can. I am pretty sure that a lot more spend most of their efforts with rhetoric.