Illusion #1 - "The Masonic Order, as it practices today, is no longer affiliated with the occult in any way. Not a "hunch" but fact." Please check out the information at the site I posted above, and many of the others you will find if you do a search on "Freemasonry". I do know that your statement is incorrect, based on my own experiences with the Order.

Illusion #2 - "How is it you are so wise about others' beliefs when you aren't even clear on what your own are? It's always unwise to presume, (and I can be just as foolish as anyone else in this regard!) I also demonstrated intolerance of the intolerance between religious groups in my postings.. AARRGGGHHHH! But I will say here that I don't bother with 'beliefs' much. I prefer truth.

Illusion #3 - That's why we have a clear separation of church and state. When 'religious' and 'occult' words and symbols disappear from your Constitution, Oath of Allegience, currency etc. then perhaps we will truly know the seperation of church and state. (I'm not holding my breath).

Illusion #4 - "(calling Dubya "confused" when actually it is the poll data that is obviously flawed)." I did not call 'Dubya' confused. I meant that it was confusing to ME (I don't speak for 'Dubya') that 50% of Americans claim to be 'extremely uncomfortable' with their Presidential candidates expressing their religiousity, while 70% of Americans claim to want a 'strongly religious' President. I found myself wondering what IS it that Americans DO want? Do they even know? Pardon my on-line wondering! Seems to me that means 20% of Americans want a 'strongly religious President' who does not make that aspect of himself public knowledge during his campaign. How then would anyone know if he/she (boy THAT would be nice!) was religious? Hmmmm?

These statistics are not from a "poll" either, but from the US census of 2002. I always thought that a census is more objective and reliable than a 'poll', which is why I considered the statistics credible at all. Believe what you will - that's what your gov't is telling you - and the rest of the world - about yourselves.

You did not take the time to check out the link I posted perhaps?

Anyway I meant no offence to you or anyone else Peg. I don't know you at all, so I could only offer what I consider to be 'illusions' from your postings here. And I do apologize for assuming you were of the disgruntled ex-Christian type. It was your words "Bush is a fundamentalist Christian who..." and "I was mortally offended when he pulled the religion card today while speaking about those who died on the Columbia space shuttle. How fucking tasteless." that led me to that assumption.

Oh yes, and "I am not threatened one whit by Christianity." followed a few lines down by "The effort to create a pervasive atmosphere of Christian beliefs and the so-called "family values" associated with them makes people such as myself (not to mention other non-Christians) vulnerable to persecution ..." Sounded 'disgruntled' to me. Please pardon my presumption.

And again, how can there not be a 'pervasive atmosphere of Christian beliefs' in a country where 82% of the population claims those very beliefs, according to your own nation-wide (I presume) census?? Hmmm??

daylia