DougR wrote:

Old Guy: I find it interesting that no one is addressing your last message. Facts are not what keeps these discussions going you know.

DougR

First off, *I* find it interesting that someone who NEVER backs ups his claims with anything factual should be appearing to champion this trait in another. However, that's neither here nor there since the attribution of "facts" to the post by Oldguy is wrongly applied...

Let's look at it:


Old Guy wrote:


I thought Congress voted and gave Bush the authority to do whatever he thought was necessary.
--this is such a vague, generalized statement that it is hard to know where to begin. In he good old days of this nation, the approval of Congress was needed to decalre war. This law has been eroded steadily since the days of Bush Sr.'s decision to go to war in the Persian Gulf.
"Whatever he thinks necessary" is stunningly vague and simplistic. And simply not true.



They did the same thing right after 9/11 when congress was mostly Democratic but some people said that was not good enough so it was voted on again in November.
--there was a great deal of dissension post-9-11 regarding the need for increased "security" measures. The government has decided to go utterly against public opinion on this, much as they are in this newest war effort in Iraq. Don't make it sound like a landslide. The significant bit of information you're leaving out is that the "new" laws passed which are destroying constitutionally-protected rights to privacy and freedom of speech and protection from unwarranted search and seizure (in other words, the First and Fourth Amendments) were drafted and in place WELL BEFORE 9-11; how on earth could such lengthy and complex documents be composed so quickly? Answer: they weren't. These attempts to turn the USA into a police state have been on the books for some time, waiting for just the right sort of biblically-brainwashed puppet to implement them...



There was also the Patriot's act that gave the administration powers to do the things that are now being declared unconstitutional. I think every single change is vital to the safety of the population as a whole and it does not bother me a bit.
--the word "gave" is problematic here. Makes it seem like power was granted and everyone was somehow in favor. No one I know of approved this plan. Did you vote on it? I thought not. Again, this was a document drafted long before Bush's arrival in the White House and that should be obvious to anyone who has read it. Its sole purpose is to eliminate political dissent and activism and to allow the federal government to seize a tyrannical hold upon its populace. Using a silly jingoistic name like "patriot" for such a document does not camouflage the inherent void of Democratic spirit at its core. But it sure seems to help lull your average American (who is these days little more than a bloated, apathetic consumer who has no problem with the fact that their own government is polluting their own water systems, sabotaging their own Social Security, genitically modifying their food supply and blithely sitting back while our systems of health care, education and social service are irreparably shattered) into thinking good old Uncle Sam is looking out for them. Yessirree, my backyard and my wallet look just fine. Except unemployment keeps rising, the oil ain't gonna last forever, and the high rates of cancer in this country are directly attributable to careless disposal of toxic waste and chemically-laden foodstuffs, home furnishings and building materials.

America was founded by people who wanted freedom from tyrannical government. The Patriot Act will insure each and every American will be subjected to government monitoring of their choice of reading material, to name but one insidious permutation of this "new" set of laws. Now we are subjected to the greedy and misanthropic whims of a jaded band of corporate-controlled Fascists. The Patriot Act makes McCarthyism look like a damn ladies' garden party.


If congress is not following the will of the people we should elect some different people. I voted for the people I want to represent me. I am satisfied with the results. I haven't heard other people say who they voted for in this forum.
--I think all of us are well aware by now that our votes don't actually count for much in this country...our president didn't even win the election...so much for democracy. But lest that also be seen as an oversimplification, may I remind you that elected seats in Congress are not up for turnover as often as most other offices...



There were some people that said we can't do anything with out a UN resolution. A resolution was passed unanimously. Even Syria voted for it.
--You're not being very clear. What UN resolution, precisely, are you talking about? And at what point did our president appear to give two shits about what the UN thought? He and his administration are stupidly challenging two of our long-time European allies. This guy's understanding and implementation of foreign policy is in his ass.




How many votes and resolutions do we need to satisfy the dissenters? I am satisfied. I have been satisfied 3 times.
--I hope you're satisfied when all these horrid chickens come home to roost.



Old Guy.