Beccy, Thanks, I read your links and I agree completely that the treatment of people in Iraq is intolerable. It is shameful that such treatment is allowed to continue.

While I was at the Human Rights Watch site, I typed the word torture into the search box and learned that besides Iraq, according to HRW, there is also torture being conducted in Afghanistan, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Chechnya, Chile, China, Congo, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ingushetia, Iran, Israel, Ivory Coast, Kashmir, Kenya, Macedonia, Mexico, Nigeria, Peru, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Tunisia, Turkey, Uzbekistan and Vietnam. Not only that but the U.S. is being accused of torture as well and is being asked to prove that the accusations are false.

My data collection took some time so I haven't researched the other atrocities but I have no doubt they are widely practiced as well. I've even heard U.S. officials argue publicly that torture should be permitted on those detainees not protected by the U.S. Constitution as an effective means of gaining intelligence.

Just because a practice is widespread, doesn't mean I think it should be allowed to continue, but I do wonder—if that is the reason for a preemptive attack—how we will muster the resources to conquer each of the countries listed. Will the U.K. join us in the effort? Who else is on board? Will we conquer each of them in turn, as Doug has suggested or will we conquer them two or more at a time?

I'd really like to see the thread participants collaboratively draw up a list of grievances that, taken together, constitute a mandate for preemptively attacking another country—any country. I think everyone here has a piece of the list. Let's see if we can put it all together. I mean, if we, who are all friends and play the same music, can't agree… who can?

      - Mark