And you don't respect Dean or Kucinich, Bobert? It's just that Nader had no chance of winning. I respect you Green party members, I really do. If it were Germany, where they hold seats, I could see it. I remember when my generation, and probably yours, decided to opt out of "the system" and stop voting back in 1968. I went along with it for a good long time, and then some of us -- Tom Hayden comes to mind -- decided that it was better to work "within the system." So, perhaps I became one of the wishy-washy liberals.

It's true what's happened to the Democrats. But I am wondering if, instead of feeling that the system has to be destroyed from the bottom up -- we could see it as, the Democratic party had to fragment and hit bottom, before it could see its way up. If it hasn't learned its lesson yet, it will have to.