Julie Rogers wrote ……   


i've followed this thread from the start not believing clansfolk could be so petty to start it.

The Topic was started in a discussion board after comments were made to me at a regular singaround (I attend 2-4 a week and enjoy all of them most of the time) – I'm not sure why I was "petty" to start it and am surprised that so many people responded to the subject and not just let the petty thread die


was it knowingly started so as to create bad feeling? No – neither did I think it would and neither do I think it has… and I take objection to you implying this.

hey everyone is entitled to there own opinion but some are better unsaid – is this except for me or the people who don't agree with you? should we just be quiet and not debate such subjects?


if clansfolk is so unhappy playing with people who dare break his rules why does he continue?
– I don't have any rules – I have opinions on what I feel are bad manners (I'm most offended to bad manners to others than myself) I do not "Run" sing arounds and as mentioned in one of the threads enjoy playing with other musicians (and have done for approaching 50 years)


why do something you're unhappy with? - see above – when did I say I was unhappy I thought it was the opposite!

pete and guest folkie to name just two seem to have brought i little sense into this matter – "Pete"??? and Guest Folkie – guest "folkie" did make interesting comments and I did in fact comment on this…….

and no i dont think bone 2 pick is moaning i think he has a valid point and would think his comment about his wife was meant as a joke if maybe a sarcastic one...     If bone2pic was being "sarcastic" would this not contradict his complaint that was obviously directed at an individual who he was incapable of facing to discuss what he thought was a personal attack on himself (I didn't say he was moaning but I get the feeling he has a lot of pent up anger and annoyed at himself that he didn't confront the "Banjo Player" – as a banjo player myself he can shout at me if it will make him feel better (I've broad shoulders and a Belly to match!!!)

from what i've read in this thread clansfolk pete knows a thing or to about sarcasm or are his comments meant as sarcastic remarks or doe he really believe in what he wrote?   - Some were obviously tongue in cheek most were my opinion - if that's alright (that was sarcasm ;-) ) – I'm happy to clarify which were which (maybe if you PM me as you appear to object to me and my comments rather than the topic and those who feel there is a problem?)

One interesting thing I noticed about the thread is the amount of "guests" and "first time Posters" that contributed and the number of people who are concerned with "Bad Manner" at session etc…… maybe it's not a "petty" subject to those who ARE concerned about other people's feelings????

Below is a list of My (Pete aka Clansfolk) post on this topic






(1) I'd be interested what you think are bad manners at sessions/singarounds at open bar sessions and by fellow musicians/singers.

Comments I had so far....
Joining in with tunes you don't know - loudly....
Insisting on playing the chords you know for the song even if they clash with the person performing....
Playing or showing someone to play an instrument/different song whist someone is performing.......
Talking........

I'm sure many have their pet annoyances - or maybe it doesn't bother you what others do when you are playing/singing at a session????

"the one thing that annoys me about amateur musicians is that they expect you to listen to them" J B SHAW?
(George Beranard Shaw)


(2) and I thought it was just me being intolerant in me old age -

- maybe living through the shared folk revival in the 50/60s and the way everyone learnt, shared and admired together has led me to believe that the people who go to sessions now are of the same mind and want to join together to enjoy a mutual interest - where so many nowadays seem to treat sessions as time to show-off try to play louder than anyone else and generally say "look at me"

"There's no "I" in group"

am I really that old


(3) I'm living on the pension now - it doesn't go so far etc........          .............In my day,

(4) I agree that in a pub you expect the clients to talk - but surely fellow musician should have more respect - the talkers are usually the ones who expect everyone to be quiet whilst they perform!

(5) errrrmmmmmmmm   getting am I?
Been everywhere, seen and done everything - what a shame I can't remember any of it!
- do as you would be done by is my motto now - grrrrrrr!

(6) chordus interuptus - very dangerous.....

(7) TOPIC      Bad Manners at sesions, singaround



Guests.... Disapointed & Guest Folkie??? ......

Guest "disapointed" - with that attitude I'm surprised your old enough to be allowed in pubs.

They are music sessions not help sessions.........


Maybe you are attending the wrong clubs for the wrong reasons or with the attitude...

I would be made welcome and benefit from the experience of listening and playing to live music in a social setting

I have never heard of a problem with the above, at the Falcon we are always happy for people to listen, and play what they have learned -

However it can be off putting for other artists (of any ability) to have people talk, or play wrong chords, or in wrong keys whilst they are performing, also many artist go to the trouble of arranging a song, intros, instrumentals etc... and may be happier NOT to have others join in (many others of course welcome other able musicians to play/sing along)

Oh and a public house is what it says - so regardless of whether you're playing your banjo or your bones - you're not that special - life goes on and people talk - its called socialising

Of course people talk in pubs..... but maybe if people wish to "socialise" loudly (usually to shout over the music!) it might just be common decency not to join a group of people who are playing and singing purporting to be there to join in and enjoy that side of socialising then talk through what they are doing! Manners cost nothing!!

I think the whole thing comes down to respect for others.... whether new to music or a survivor from the 50's (or earlier!) I don't "butt in" to peoples conversations - go along to a party and try and organise everyone - tell people what to drink and how to drink it - why then do people go along to sessions, Singaround and be musically impolite to the same degree?????

Don't go along to join in with something you say you enjoy and then expect everything to change to the way you want it to be and remember...........

GIGO - Garbage in - Garbage out   - make an effort to contribute to the event not disrupt it.......

Tip: If you don't know a tune, playing louder doesn't help you learn it!

Pete .....

always happy to play/sing alongside musicians of any standard who are aware of their capabilities, can tune (or arrange to have tuned) their instrument, know the key others are playing in (if they are joining in), know when NOT to play, enjoy making and listening music, and don't listen to "Music Teachers" who tell them "it doesn't matter if you play the wrong chords, play in the wrong key, sing out of tune etc.. as long as you're joining in and enjoying yourself" !!!!      :-}

(8)        I think many of the above comments also apply to "Bones2pic" who only looks to be going along to the sessions to get away from his wife??

If his wife won't put up with him why should others????

(9) Peter from Essex...

If you stopped the people mentioned going to your "open" sessions and singarounds and restricted them to folk clubs (although many of the session/singarounds I've been to consist of many people who don't play folk music) I think you would be left with very few musicians....

I'm sure I would find little enjoyment in sitting with a crowd of people, talking, playing out of tune, playing / singing different songs etc..... all at the same time,

Guest Folkie.... I must agree! maybe I'll take an extra pill and try and be more tolerant, and try and realise that sometimes what appears to be bad manners on the part of others is just a lack of being aware of how a things normally happen in what to them is a new environment....   and that sometimes comments that are meant to be a joke to put people at their ease, can be taken as an attack or sarcasm - not to judge books by covers and not to hate in plural....

and maybe if we all had a bit more respect for others beliefs and feeling it would be a better world to live in.....


Now where's those pills..............    :-)

(10) Janice - simple yet effective...   Have adopted the idea, but will maybe add a "Pass" option -

A card (triangle in shape) could be made to pass to the next person in the circle - which would show their choice - everyone was aware even those who may have not heard the choice or were at the bar loo?
brill
Pete