What guitar should I play?

Subject: What guitar should I play?
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 08:03 AM

I have just started to play guitar so i am only a beginner, so I ask you Mudcatters, What guitar should I play. Give us an idea where I can get it, how much etc..

Cheers catters

Bye, Sam

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Tony Burns
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 08:31 AM

Way too personal a decision. Try as many guitars as you can and if you find one that speaks to you (and you can afford it) then that's the right guitar for you. Unless you are very experienced take Rick Fielding's advice and have another guitar player look at it too.

It is easier to advise someone on what guitar to buy as a first guitar than what to buy as a life long companion.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 08:44 AM

Sam,

If you want Mucatter advice, read the guitar threads which are all recently refreshed. Tony just gave you some excellent advice too. There are lots of excellent guitars out there that can be bought for less than $750.00 and will satisfy your needs for years. Don't be afraid to take an experienced player along shopping. And, avoid cheap guitars, even as a first one. You'll have a harder time and become discouraged.

Reading your posts on other subjects, I'm sure you'll make a good decision. When you find something you think you want, you can always ask about it here too.

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Bri
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 10:46 PM

Nylon strings are also good to start out on...I know when I started playing, about 5 yrs. ago, nylon killed my fingers. About 2 yrs. later, I got the guitar I intend to grow old with, so my first was only about $150. What everyone I talked to suggested was to start with a cheapy nylon, tho what kind beyond that is personal. :o)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 12:47 AM

Sam, I really enjoy your posts. Just thought I would let you know that out of the gate.

You have picked a great time to buy a decent guitar. I would suggest that you start in the $250 to $400 range. There are plenty of guitars in that range that have great sound and decent actions. When I refer to action I am referring, in the simplest terms to the "fretability" of the guitar. In other words, how easy is it to depress the strings and play the notes/make the chords. Very cheap guitars are difficult to play and discourage beginners. I would recommend a Seagull, which can be had for around $300 or so. Or something in that range. Tacoma is another good brand which has guitars in this range. The best advice was to play as many guitars as possible and then make your choice. I would advise against spending a lot more than this for the following reasons. 1) You may lose interest and then have more invested than you want.

2) If you find yourself loving it and improving steadily, you are going to develope specific things that you like about a guitar and will be able to make a better decision.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Bert
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 09:00 AM

I don't know about cheap guitars being hard to play. I'm sure there are some still out there but nowadays there are many cheapies that are fair to good. Yamaha make a range of guitars, some under $200, that are consistently good.

Our local discount warehouse BJ's had some off brand guitars just before Xmas for about $90 each. I tried one, the action was perfect and it sounded OK.

I agree with the remarks about Seagull, excellent, great sounding solid top guitars.

I would take a good guitarist along with me to a large store and do blindfold tests starting with the cheapest they have.

Try different examples of the same model, they all vary. I remember helping a friend with a very limited budget one day. A local store had some VERY CHEAP Chinese guitars they were trying to get rid of. They were all the same model, mostly a load of crap, necks out of alignment, action all wrong, awful sound. We had to try just about every one they had but eventually we found one that was pretty fair.

Bert.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: reggie miles
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 02:21 PM

I agree Bert. Sam, try to bring someone who can guide you in the selection so you don't end up with something that will make your first experinences with playing more difficult than they have to be. Silk and steel strings are easy on your fingers, as a beginer they helped me. I'm not sure they're available any longer. No one made mention of used guitars and there are a lot of them out there. Why I'd venture to say that most guitars players have them collecting dust in the corners of their dens as I do. The second hand market place can be a good spot to check for good deals on guitars. I myself am an avid garage saler, swap meeter, pawn shop snooper and junk store creeper and I've seen countless instruments bought and sold of every value, description and condition. A good used playable beginer to intermediate guitar could be as close as the garage sale down the street and could be had for a bargain price too. Because a guitar is used does not necessarily make it less valuable than one that is new. There are many fine used guitars that are resold every day. It is however important, as was stated above, to have someone along with you to help make a good selection, an experinenced player's assistance in this matter would be ideal. Local guitar repair people may be worth giving a call. Those who repair and build instruments can have some good suggestions about what to look for and where to find it. Of course you'll find an excellent source of help, for every step of your journey into this musical realm, with the fine folks right here at the Mudcat Cafe. Good luck with your travels Sam.

Reggie Miles

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Bert
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 02:32 PM

Reggie, Yes I love thrift stores and have bought several fair guitars at around the $30 mark. But the bargains are few and far between (fortunately, or our music room would be full to the ceiling) and it might be difficult to coordinate one search with the 'expert friend'.

Sam, of course if you have the time to look around you should be able to buy a dozen or more for $300 and about 30% of them should be reasonable.

Bert.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: reggie miles
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 03:05 PM

Well Bert when the music room gets too full have a garage sale but don't forget to invite me. Ok? Saw ya there, Reggie

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Bert
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 04:43 PM

WHAT!!! you expect me to SELL my babies????

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: reggie miles
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 11:38 PM

Uh oh, what I meant was, er uh well if you should say, you know, kind of uh, get a, uh or I mean uh, more, that's it, if you should perhaps acquire more than what you may wish to deal with at some future time, whenever that may or may not be, then maybe, well there may be the outside possiblity that you might want to consider the idea of finding other good homes for some of the... How do I get out of this? Ok, maybe not. Yeah I know how you feel I myself will probably let go of my homemade monstrosities when they pry them from my cold stiff dead fingers. So sawry for my insensitive suggestion, Reggie

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: sail
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 10:20 PM

What about a Westbury guitar? My son is selling his to me for $100. I play nothing but Boil em Cabbage Down on the lap dulcimer. Is this too poor a guitar to learn on? I just want to learn a few basic cords to be able to do some folk songs, in case I ever have grandchildren!

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 10:38 PM

Bert and Reggie....

I have to inform you that 'Paw and Cletus ARE back together and are going back into business with the Fielding bros...Reg, Reg, and Reg. If you recall they take you hunting (or ice fishing) and have you bring along your instruments to "make a little music." Then mysterious accidents seem to happen and you wind up dead and they wind up with your ax. Just be forewarned.

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 12:51 AM

Hey Sam,

Let me just take you the other way a bit. Martin makes a DM that is for the entry level or road market. The DM looks good and the ones I've played (3) all sounded and played quite well. If you stick with it, this guitar will go a long ways with you, and if you don't, it's not too hard to sell a Martin anything...'cept maybe a tiple. Elderly in Lansing, Michigan sells the DM for $580.00 with a hard shell case. Not too bad in the overall scheme of things.

Just another option to consider. By the way, one of my local stores will grudgingly match Elderly's price on Martin. You might find the same thing in your neck of the woods.

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 01:34 AM

Good piece of advice by my buddy Catspaw. I played one of these about 3 weeks ago. Played it for about 3 hours. Solid instrument with a great action. And pretty reasonable. The Seagull sounded and played just as good for less money, but you don't get the resale that you get from the Martin. Hard to beat 'em.

Mick

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 02:15 AM

Good point about resale value. Just heard something yesterday that caught me by surprise, even though it's logical and I should have clicked into it a long time ago. The 12th fret, our local pro shop was selling a 1959 Gibson J-50 for 3200 bucks (that's 150 in U.S. dollars...no, just kidding, it's about 2500 U.S.) I asked what my much beloved and long gone Epiphone Texan would fetch now, and they said "about 1500". What? says I, it's the same guitar, but with a slightly classier pedigree. "Not since Epiphone sold their name to the Orient 30 years ago, said the owner". "to the buying public of today, Epiphone just means a generic import." Same of course with Washburn, and to a certain extent, Fender. Even though they've entered the "cheaper" market, Martin have still managed to keep their 'snob appeal."

By the way Catspaw, Reg, Reg, and Reg, have all taken their pregnant wives to the supermarket. I guess you probably know why.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: mountain tyme
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 04:39 AM

Music is my life so i want to play a guitar that sounds good right from the start. The better an inst sounds the more you will want to play it. catspaw49 gave good advice! If you can afford a Martin DM go for it. It's a great guitar for the price and with the Martin name on it if you find guitar playing is not your forte a used Martin of any model will be easy to re-sell without a loss. If you can afford just a little more money the Martin DR (R for rosewood) is a steal and very re-sellable. The action on any guitar is adjustable and can be set very low for a beginner to make it easy to play. After your fingers develope and the pain goes away (only if you practice alot) you can have the action raised to get more sound. Had not the weather turned warm so suddenly i had planned to take "Paw & Cletus ice fishing where they could keep their beer real cold an after a few 6 packs thought they mite just like to play my old Gibson archtop with DeArmend pick up attached. Under the conditions of ice fishing and the very memorable lack of electrical insulation not packed into them DeArmend units our worries of meeting up with them two collectors would be laid to rest. On second thought maybe it's not to late. Round these parts we usually summer fish with quarter sticks. Hmmmm :-)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Bert
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 10:18 AM

$580 with a hardcase doesn't sound too bad a deal, and the guys are right about the resale value. But it depends on your budget, your musical ability and your hearing. My budget islimited, my musical ability is poor to middling and I'm a liitle bit "Mutt & Jeff" so I would probably not be able to fully appreciate or do justice to a very expensive guitar.

And, if you can't HEAR a difference, there isn't one.

Bert.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Tony Burns
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 12:41 PM

I want to re-iterate the advice I started with and others have supported. Try, try, try and keep trying until you find a guitar that sounds and *feels* good to you. Advice on brands and models is valuable but I would not advise anyone to buy on that alone. For example, Martins are fine guitars but I have never played one that I wanted to own. That's just me and my experiences so far. I may love the next Martin I pick up.

So, don't limit yourself to recommended brands/models, try everything and don't buy mail order unless there is a good return policy.

I guess I should also state again that this advice is for finding the guitar that will be your life long companion. You need the experience of playing to by able to do all the test driving. Brand, model and reputation can be used for a first guitar.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 01:32 PM

News flash! I just spent 3 hours in a store well stocked with ALL the new guitars, high to low end. Seagull, Simon and Patrick, Godin...all the Quebec-made guitars were tremendously impressive. I'm sold. Not only that but they apparently do little advertising and don't even have brochures. If this had been a blind fold test the five or six hundred dollar guitars would have held up mighty well against Gibson, Taylor and all the imports.

Other (biased) impressions: New Martins..excellent, they are definitely back in the ball game. New Taylors...thin, bolt on necks..very nice. New Gibsons...about equivalent to medium to high end imports, but MUCH more expensive. People still want the name though. New Guilds..bring back the old designs and solid feel. New Collings and new Santa cruise...good sound, beautiful finish, great necks...but I'd hate to put the first scratch or dent in one of them. (scratches and dents seem to be part of a Martin's charm, but a brand new Collings looks to me like it should stay pristine.) New Takimines..Think they're starting to drop the ball after revolutionizing the market for so long. Just wasn't overly impressed with the new ones..not enough sound. Favourite guitar of the morning: New Martin D-18. Least favourite: Ovation (I am still a mudcatter after all and feel obligated to dump on Ovation) grin, grin, nudge wink! (is that how you do it?)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 04:37 PM

Sounds like a great day you miserable p%^#$^&(&^k !!!

Tell us more on the Quebec stuff including pricing, etc. What do you mean by your Guild comment...confusing. What made the D-18 your morning's pick? Did Heather have any idea where you were? Do you need a place to sleep?

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Tony Burns
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 04:46 PM

Rick,

There may be no Seagull/Godin/... brochures but there is a web site.

http://www.lasido.com/

Tony Burns (who owns 2 Seagulls)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 04:54 PM

Tony, let me try to make Seagull a clickable link thingy.

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: reggie miles
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 05:56 PM

Ok, I'm a little slow on the up take with a lot of the subtleties being posted here. In particular to the references keyboarded out by Catspaw and Rick. Is there something I should be aware of here? I mean, Reg, Reg and Reg and their pregnant wives going to the supermarket. What is that all about? Ice fishing electrocution schemes, is there a point being made that could be made more plainly for the sake of the challenged?

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 06:57 PM

Reggie, they took their pregnant wives to the supermarket cause they heard they had free delivery! Now aren't you sorry you asked? My humble apologies to everyone.

Cat, did I mention it was after an hour of therapy (mental kind, not physical). Trust me I needed the visit to Long and McQuade Music.

Quebec guitars pricing: very low in Canada, and that's a switch, not sure about U.S. but they're VERY competitive.

The Guilds always used to feel very solid and substantial to me (perhaps even a little over-built.Remember how heavy they used to be compared to others? They now seem to be going in a kind of lighter flimsier direction. Close your eyes and a Guild could be a "Tak". Don't seem right.

The D-18 felt old and powerful. The Eric Clapton model was nice too, except for his pearl autograph. Do you remember Gibson's "Trini Lopez" guitar? Holy Cow!

Answer to 4th question: not yet.

Answer to 5th question: not yet.

Met a nice kid (20 or so) behind the counter, and because I was the only person in the store and he was probably bored, he decided to take down about 30 guitars and insist I try them. He said he was a "jazz-punk cellist" and when I nodded sagely and dropped the names of both Jacqueline DuPre and the band "Rancid" his eyes visibly widened and he told me his whole life story. He ended up giving me his demo tape and non-verbally implied that it was nice to meet someone so old who understood "his" music. Well first of all, I ain't THAT old, I probably WON'T be blown away by his tape, but it's nice to keep up with (at least the names of) modern bands, cause I really enjoyed talking to him. I'm no dummy, had I said "Pablo Casals and The Beatles", I would have given myself away as a standard old fart, and he would have gone back to the computer.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: reggie miles
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 06:52 AM

I don't know Rick out here in the Pacific Northwest that whole Beatles thing seems to be coming back in the sounds that are being bantered about by the younger set. Not that I'm old mind you. At least I don't feel old. Ok maybe a little. After playing a three hour and fifteen minute set the other night, with no breaks, I guess I did feel a bit out of breath. Some friends are in a band out here that seem heavily influenced by the Beatles both in the way they approach their vocals and in their writing. There are others that I have noticed as well with the same Beatle influences. All of these bands were younger than me, some by quite a few years. (I won't go into specifics on this point) The point that I want to make is that what was once inovative is now being re-incorporated into the visions of these new bands and the circle continues. Reggie

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 02:55 PM

I'm glad to hear that Reggie, I'm an unabashed Beatles' fan, even came close to meeting one (it didn't happen, darn it)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Mark Roffe
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 03:30 PM

The current issue of "Acoustic Guitar" magazine (May 1999) reviewed 14 bargain acoustics (under $500 list). They loved the Hohner HW 640 (list price only $299), and had good things to say about the Dean DA PS ($399) and the Simon & Patrick 6 ($469).

I know a beginner who just bought a Hohner and loves it (not sure what model she got, but it was inexpensive).

Me, I've only bought used guitars, so I dunno...

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From:
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 06:50 PM

Clayton used to tell me,

"Son, you better put that

Old guitar away.

There ain't no money in it,

And it'll lead you to an early grave."

--Tom T. Hall

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Einnor (inactive)
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 02:52 AM

I bought one of those Norman guitars made of Indian Rosewood and learned alot. The people at Long and Mcquade really looked after me. I was doing alright with wy playing until I found a 63 SOUTHERN JUMBO in great shape and it is teaching me. Quality really means alot.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 03:03 AM

Dear reggie,

To fully understand (God knows I don't) the tales and meanderings of Paw, Cletus, Reg, Reg, and Reg....plus assorted others, watch for an upcoming thread that will include a "history" to help you catch up before moving ro their latest exploits.

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 09:12 AM

Looks like it's all guys on this thread so I thought I'd inject another point about the benefits of my new-used Seagull- it fits! Mine is a smallish model and as a fairly slimmish female-type with long arms, the Seagull is the first guitar I've played that feels as though it likes me as much as I like it! Guys don't have these problems, as I understand it....
Allison

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 09:26 AM

I'm NOT touching the last two sentences!!! However, your point about fit and comfort is well taken.

catspaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 09:42 AM

Catspaw, thanks for the update thread. It sounds like you may have enough to put together a books worth of adventures. Something to think about. Reggie

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 02:38 PM

Hi Animaterra (and everyone) Well, you brought something up that I've carefully avoided as it can be seen by some as a sensitive area, and I'm on my best behaviour these days (ugh, must I say "grin")

Over the last 3 or 4 years I've had some students (mostly female) of substantial proportions, and some problems have arisen. Most people are somewhat visually oriented when trying to learn an instrument, and some, entirely so. If your individual superstructure prevents you seeing either the strings or fret board you're going to have a devil of a time learning guitar or banjo (or whatever). Next problem: Guitars generally rest on laps,(and knees, if you're in a sitting position)but an extra heavy person has nothing to rest it on, hence a strap becomes the only real option to keep the instrument from slidin' off and hitting the floor. One of the folks I worked with was not large at all but constructed somewhat like Dolly Parton, so also couldn't see where her hands were going. Each person came to me with Dreadnought sized guitars (probably cause they're the most available) and sometimes I wonder if the salesperson (usually a guy) even tried to steer the person to a smaller instrument. Bet they didn't. Anyway it's touchy, my my job is to be straight with a potential student, so I remind them that 90% of the folks who take up an instrument don't end up getting past the first few weeks (or learn so poorly that they never get the enjoyment out of it that they should) If everyone did progress the world would be filled with guitar players, and despite what some might think, it ain't. I try to emphasise how important those first few weeks are, and the importance of having an instrument as closely suited to your body type as possible, which means in the aforementioned cases..MUCH smaller instruments. Styles like Martin's 0-18, or those wonderful little Guilds, or Gibson's L-0 models would make their learning much easier, but also make their wallets substantially lighter (assuming you could find one of these). When I first saw the Seagull (very) small guitar, I rejoiced! Perfect size, real cheap (200 in Canada) and amazingly good sound. I could go on for pages on the subject of teaching (and solving learning problems) but in a nutshell, large folks with small Seagulls have had far fewer problems. It works

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 10:13 AM

Hey, Rick, what's this about students? Where do we find you, are you in the book? (Seriously)

Yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 10:32 AM

Yup, in da book. but calling 416-690-8697 is much easier. Twelve years ago after suffering "bar burnout", an ailment all too common among folks who make their living at music, I decided (with the help of a REALLY good therapist) to find something else to do to keep the wolf at bay. He picked up on the fact that I was always showing folks how to play proper "F" chords and fifty ways to use their thumbs, and suggested that I get serious about it. Saved my life in a way. I love working with people on stringed instruments, from beginners to pros, and it's allowed me to only play where I want to, thus avoiding requests for Kenny Rogers, Abba, and "You Light Up My Life". Also haven't had an incident like the one Big MIck just went through in a dozen years.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Ian Stephenson
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 06:03 AM

Hi Sam Pirt You should play a Norman B20. Its always better to start on a half decent guitar to start with. You can get one from John Turner at the Music Room or at Whitby folk festival. Are you going to moor and coast festival anyone? From Little Ian

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From:
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 06:17 PM

Sam

Aren't there enough guitar players and guitars out there already without adding to them.

Be brave sing unaccompanied.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 07:03 PM

Andrew I may well, I already play accordion as a main instrument and maybe thats all I need.

Bye, Sam

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: tutor
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 07:50 PM

A small tip: Make sure that the guitar you choose is tuned to standard pitch. A friend had been shopping for some time for a Martin. After going through a number of reputable and reasonable shops through several seasons, she excitedly called me to tell me that she had found the ideal Martin D28, with a wonderfully mellow tone that she had been looking for, and brought it right over to show me. When I strummed a G it sounded a little slack in pitch, so I proceeded to tune it up a bit. The closer I got to standard pitch, the more her face fell... The wonderfully mellow tone was due to it's being tuned three frets too low! She got a good guitar at a fair price, but she never felt the same about it since.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Jul 00 - 10:44 PM

refresh for Crowhugger

Spaw

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 01:13 AM

As a beginner also, I would suggest a Dean or a Takamine, I love my Takamine, they are affordable, and sound really good.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 01:54 AM

Well, a question that has been very much on my mind lately, and particularly on my fingers, is: How do you know if you just need to keep on mashing those strings down and turning your fingers into hamburger meat or get a different guitar?

I have a Yamaha, which I've been plunking around on for the past year or so and have been seriously playing for the past several weeks. I'm getting better, but it hurts like the dickens on my left hand. I had the action lowered, but now the strings seem to buzz at the slightest provocation, and I either am buzzing strings or deadening them. I'm trying to learn to fingerpick, so the muffled strings are especially noticeable and unpleasant.

And I just don't know if I need to soldier on or if there's something wrong with my guitar...

Wonderin in ... oh. No longer in Wyoming, WW

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 02:22 AM

WW, you might be able to see some of the sources by looking down the length of the neck from the head. Are all the strings the same height from the frets? Peer at the fret wires - do any of them seem to be just a wee bit higher or lower than the rest? Is the fretboard itself nice and even or do you see a little (or a lot) of a dip between the first few frets and the body? Maybe a bit of a twist?

Then position your fingers on the chords that cause problems and look again, especially at the fret wires. Buzzing often comes when one or more is too high for some reason. Or maybe a certain note is sending a vibration to some metal part, like in the tuning pegs.

Make a very thorough list of the symptoms and then ask around about possible solutions; I like to ask at least two guitar makers about things like that, a great education comes along with the answer if they love their work. Anyone whose opinions I trust are a good alternative. And of course, trust your instincts about who should do the work if that's the solution for you.

I'm an amateur diagnostician, but I've played guitars that irked me and could usually find a good reason for it by having a close look. Best of luck! May your frustration be very short-lived.

$0.02
CH.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 10:16 AM

Thanks, CH. I now am playing my guitar in the "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" mindset. I figure if I just keep slogging through it, either I'll end up with very strong, calloused fingers and that's how it's supposed to be, or when I finally do decide to bag it with this guitar and get another one, it'll seem like a dream in comparison.

Blue Jay's son in law is a luthier and I think I'll schlepp the guitar down to him one of these days soon to see what his assessment is ...

Meanwhile, I can say that my guitar playing has hit one of those times of exponential growth. I went along for so long so laboriously changing fingering between chords and working so HARD at it all, and I noticed the other day as I was meandering around the house, that I was actually playing without even looking and changing chords (in the simple ones I've mastered -- C,D,E,A,G and some useful 7ths and minors) relatively smoothly. I tend to see how far I still want to go and feel that I'm not a kilometer down the path, rather than seeing how very far I've come over the past few months.

Still, my fingertips are complaining, loudly, every step of the way...

WW

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Midchuck
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 11:43 AM

A very good guitar repairperson on the flatpick list suggested the "16-cent rule" for telling if your guitar's action is too high, too low or about right.

A dime and a penny (US, that is), together, should just fit between the top of the twelth fret and the low E string, just touching, but not deflecting, the string. A nickel, alone, should fit between the 12 fret and the high E string, likewise. If there's room to spare, the strings are too high, if the coins push them up, they're too low.

Of course, that's for flatpickers and a new guitarist or a sensitive, ethereal fingerpicker might find it much too high. It also doesn't take into account things like a bad neck set, warped neck, nut too high and saddle too low, etc. ad infinitum - but it's a starting point.

Peter.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Sailor Dan working??
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 11:59 AM

Sam;

With all this good expert advice, your probably scratching your head trying to put it all in place. I have found that these people only have your best interests at heart and they are extremely knowledgeable, besides being good. 1 My suggestion is after you spend some hours playing guitars in these stores,

Buy a banjo, :) "BG"

Sailor Dan.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 00 - 12:03 PM

If after a few weeks of playing your fingers are one to two inches shorter, it may be time to look for a better guitar. Over the years I've worn mine down to nubs on Harmony and Kay guitars (Stella, too).

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Marion
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 08:17 PM

I'm refreshing this as I'm in a guitar-boying space now.

The guitar I have my eye on is Quebec made (Art and Lutherie) but is only 250 Canadian: do the positive comments people have made about the other Quebec guitars also apply to this slightly cheaper model?

The other ones that were in my price range in the local store were a Vester and a Takamine "Jasmine". Opinions welcome.

Marion

PS Just being nosey - what incident had Big Mick just been through when this thread was new?

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: GUEST,Les (uk)
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 12:37 PM

Sam, I noticed a few people recommending Martin DM, at $580, in the UK it would probably be nearer £580, for an average guitar. If you can afford it try a Taylor, very easy to play. 'Sounds Great' at Heald Green Nr Manchester Airport have a good selection of Guitars, inc Taylors, and our friends at the Music Room, Cleckheaton, sell Taylors. I am going the other way and have just bought a Hohner Erica Melodian from them. Like they all say take a guitar playing friend with you.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 01:11 PM

Sam, I'd have thought that the answer would be Docherty! ;-)

Seriously, how much do you want to spend? I noticed Ian Stephen mentioning Norman. I tried a couple of them last year in our local music shop and they were quite nice but for me (and it is subjective), I prefered the similarly priced Landola.

Jon

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: pict
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 02:01 AM

Vester are not a good make and Jasmine are a cheaper version of Takemines more expensive range I don't like Takemine guitars but lots of people love them.The Art and Lutherie range have a solid top(soundboard made of a solid softwood)and are made in the same place as Norman and Seagull guitars the ones I've seen are plain looking but well made and good sounding.I don't think you would go too far wrong buying the Art and Lutherie plus you'd be supporting a Canadian company(presuming you are in fact Canadian?)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: bill\sables
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 08:12 AM

As Jon says there is only one guitar a Docherty, Ask Ian Stephenson if you dont beleave me. Even Martin Carthy plays one.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 10:13 AM

just take a look at the book beatles gear and it will show youmany different guitars that you can play, me i'd love at have a 325 ric like john lennon had in the earley days of the beatles, he could make that little guitar rock. BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 07:15 PM

what? nobody likes guitars any more except me. BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 09:13 AM

My favourite thread ever. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: mooman
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 01:42 PM

Time for my predictable rant! (as the Mudcat Lakewoodophile).

Sam, try out the Lakewood range too. Top quality build, good value in the UK at present because of pound exchange rate to Euro(handmade in Germany), great sound. The D-1 and M-1 models start a LOW price and are excellent value as a good starting guitar. They get more expensive as you go up the woods, tonewoods and and options range. If I remember right the D-1 and M-1 (different body shapes corresponding to Dreadnought and 000/0000 respectively) are solid mahogany back and sides with a cedar top. The Acoustic Centre shops (I think there is one in Leeds) and some other good guitar shops stock them.

In fact try ALL the guitars people have suggested until you find the one that says "buy me" to you! That's the best advice I can offer as it's a very personal things as with all instruments.

Good hunting

mooman (Richard)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 10:52 PM

for people who like smaller guitars, the taylor big baby is an excellent choice, or if you would like to go smaller, the baby would be a nice choice. BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 10:58 PM

i tried what midchuck posted about the nickel, dime, and penny on my gibson j-40 and according to what he said, my gibson was set just right, and since i made the adjustment, that makes me proud, since i usually don't do things right like that on my guitars. BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:20 AM

oh by the way, an ovation is out of the question for me,number one, i can't stand the damn guitar, and Number two, is that i'm going on a diet to see how fat i can get and a ovation wouldnt fit on my belly as it grows. BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 09:26 AM

I see way back in Apr 99, Rick was recommending smaller guitars for smaller (or larger-in-places) people. The first guitar I bought was a Guild D-4. Big sucker, but I liked the "voice" it had. I still do. To me, aside from a mechanical problem, it sounds at least as good as some really expensive guitars.

Perhaps some of you saw my postings from Rick's where I threatened to steal his Martin 00-18? I played the guitar the whole time I visited, and I just loved it. When I came home, the Guild felt very uncomfortable, as if I were sprawled over it. The angles both of my hands connected with the strings felt awkward. I wound up buying a Martin 00-17, which is just perfect. I can relax while playing, instead of reaching, and I don't get guitar dents in various places. The mahogany guitar has a stong and gorgeous voice, but since I can better reach the strings, I have a much greater chance of bringing that voice out.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 11:43 PM

Jeri, does you new martin have a satin finish? BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 10:36 PM

jeri, do you have your ears on? BOB

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 02:39 PM

guitar playing is the ultimate, just grab a guitar and your fingers already know what's coming, and they enjoy that work out, so its better to have your guitar out and playing, than lying dormant in its case all depressed. bob

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 06:23 PM

NOW, I have my ears on! It has a gloss finish. (Funny, I don't remember it being that shiny in the store.)

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: GUEST,me
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 05:02 PM

Larrivee Parlor guitar.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Spotty
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 05:13 PM

No contest - sell your house and buy a Lowden - They're Grrrreat!

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: 53
Date: 23 Jan 02 - 09:32 PM

play anyone that you like.

Subject: RE: What guitar should I play?
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Jan 02 - 08:12 AM

A Collings 000-2H if money is not an issue.

A Martin 000-15S if money is an issue.

I have a 000-15S that is getting played more than some more expensive guitars.

Peter.

P. S., if money is really an issue, watch out for an all-plywood "lawsuit" (Martin clone - from the early '80s or the '70s) Takamine. The solid topped ones are creeping up in price, but the all-plywood ones are still pretty cheap, and are the best buy for sound and playability in a cheap guitar. I think.

P.