Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'

Subject: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 02:16 PM

How many of you out there have broken out the soldering iron and modified your pickups in some way or other...

I ask because I'm keen to give this a try... the "Twins" (2 A series Seagull Mahogany Folk) currently use D cell batteries, and of course, I have to take the frigg'n strings off the bridge end of the guitars to change 'em... Stephen Fearings gear page mentions something about modifying an existing pick-up to use Phantom Power...

My questions are these...

Is this hard to do?

Anybody know how to do it?

Can a pick-up be configured to do both battery and/or Phantom Power?

What say you Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 03:54 PM

Check out the "Let's keep in contact with music" thread which is about this kind of thing, but you wouldn't know it from the title...

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 04:19 PM

Did you read either thread Mrrzer? Except for the fact that they are both pick-up related, they have nothing at all to do with one another...

I suspect that this thread of mine might well be over the heads of 95% of catters... Maybe Rick has done some pick-up bashing... Although he doesn't even really stike me as the type...

I donno... That's why I asked...

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: GUEST,RichM
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 04:27 PM

Clinton, try asking your question in the newsgroup
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic br>

knowledgeable people there; they likely have an answer for you.

Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 04:42 PM

I have yet to take more than a first tentative step into the world of newsgroups... but this might be why I jump in with both front feet...

Ta RichM

:-)

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 05:23 PM

After a bit of web searching, I can do you some info on how phantom powering works if you want, for a rather longer answer.

The short answer is: You should be able to use both provided you put diodes in so that the diodes will automatically select whichever voltage source is active - for this, the phantom power supply voltage must be at least 0.7V more than the battery voltage otherwise the battery diode will stay partly turned on. The diode in the battery line will reduce the voltage by 0.7V, which may affect your pickup's performance, I don't know. To get phantom power in there at all, you'll need to (a) change your guitar's mono jack socket to a stereo jack socket or XLR socket so that there's 3 connections available, (b) get a suitable 3-way lead to connect it up with, (c) get some electronics to convert the low-current 48V phantom power supply into a higher-current lower-voltage supply which is more pickup-friendly, (d) hook this electronics somewhere in the guitar.

Then you need your mixing desk to be able to supply phantom power. I think this is often an optional extra. If so, you can make up the circuit easily enough - it's just a 48V supply and a couple of resistors, so the only complicated part is finding a cheap 48V supply (note that this supply must be DC, and must be regulated).

Are you sure you mean D-cells?! Really? How many? Doesn't that add significantly to the weight and balance of the guitar? One alternative to the might be to cut a (very neat!) hole in the guitar someone unobtrusive and fit a battery holder - these are available from most electronics catalogues. Most pickups/preamps these days use a single PP3 9V battery, but if yours uses D-cells then you can get a holder which takes the same number of AA or AAA cells, since they're the same voltage as D-cells. They won't last as long as D-cells, but if the holder's easily accessible then that's not a problem, right?

You may not think so, but that's the short answer. The long answer will only appear if you _really_ want it! :-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 05:26 PM

Ya.. sorry.. I donno what I was thinking.. d cells?!?!?!

D'uh... brain fart... 9V's are what I MENT!

Maybe what I'll do is email Seagull as well and see what they recomend...

ta Grabber!

;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 05:49 PM

If it's a 9V battery, it's dead easy to get a clip-in battery compartment you can add onto your guitar, provided you're confident about sticking a hole in the side somewhere. In that case, the 0.7V voltage drop due to the diode will not be an issue.

Graham.

PS. Apologies about thinking I'd lost my ring - and apologies to John too! Did the message reach you b4 he turned the room over looking for it?

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 07:46 PM

I don't know about phantom powered pickups, though it's a great idea.

I've had Washburn, homemade, and Godin electric basses with active (nine volt) electronics and found them acceptable, but all in all I prefer passive pickups and floor mounted pre-amps and volume peddles. I have one acoustic guitar remaining with an internal Miniflex mic run by a single AA battery, but I still use a floor preamp and volume peddle as there's no controls on the instrument. I've grown to prefer the controls on the floor so that I have hands-free operation. All my other instruments have either passive pickups or none at all.

My thought is that there's no reaching inside the ax for battery changes, the floor units will work with many instruments (I use an a/b box and a small mixer too if needed), my preamps have a much wider degree of control than the typical guitar installation (I use Boss EQ units, George Dennis volume peddle, Berringer mixer, Digitech RP200 multi-effects unit), and the whole thing is easier to repair if needed (even if it's more to carry around). Battery changes are easy, though the whole thing can be wall-wart powered, and the mixer will supply phantom power to a mic if required.

Someday I'm gonna build a custom pickup with a soundhole humbucker and a mic (a la Fishman Blend), stereo output, with my usual outboard controls. Please forward cash donations asap.

Peace. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 12:48 AM

"Not the type" Clinton? In a pig's eye! I've got two shoe boxes full of my Frankenstein experiments with pick-ups. For 18 years while my part-time folkie friends were being VERY acoustic I was using pick-ups for sheer self defence. You don't face a rabid horde of possible in-breds in Wawa on a Saturday night with JUST an acoustic Larrivee. (well, at least you don't live to tell about it.)

Converting to "phantom power" seemed to be harder than actually just moving the battery holder to a more easily accessable spot inside the guitar (just south of the soundhole so I could reach it without having to loosen the strings. So I did that once. It involved a little soldering and some new wires, plus some velcro.

Being the technophobe I am though, I DID once smash a mike to the floor before a gig in total disgust when it failed to operate. A big Indian guy standing next to the stage (this was in White River) casually said "Hey man, isn't that a condenser mike, have you checked the battery"? I was red-faced (so to speak) when I picked it up and HE unscrewed it. Sheeeitt! I'd had it (an Audio Technica 125) for two years and didn't even know about the little double A battery that made it work!

Now that I work mostly soft seaters, I've tried to become "acoustic again" guitar wise, but I still have my Fishman Rare Earth on board just in case!

Rick

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:26 PM

HEY! Those are my relatives in WAWA!!

LOL!!!

and I knew you were the type Rick, I was just ribbin' ya...

;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: marty D
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:35 PM

Where's Wawa? White River? Do you get to these places by canoe?

marty

Subject: RE: Help: Tech Stuff: Pick-up 'bashing'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM

Nothern Ontario, Marty... home of the blackfly and little else...

;-)