Subject: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Gypsy Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:04 AM Does anyone know the story behind this song? Found the old thread that said it was about Frankie Silver, but when i did the research, found it to not be the case. Frankie Silver was married to Charlie Silver, and did him in with an axe. Anyone out there have more info? Couldn't find a thing on google. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Mrrzy Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:17 AM This is one of those that there are so many versions of, it almost has to be based on some actual occurrence, or so humans tend to think. Like John Henry. If there isn't any HIstory, can we make up a just plain Story? |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: tar_heel Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:28 AM the frankie silver story is a north carolina classic...she was the only woman ever to be hanged in north carolina for a convited crime...it took place in morganton,n.c.,at the old courthouse bldg., on the square...the couthouse is a museum now an the jail cell where frankie was held prisoner is one of the main attractions... .......................................................... go to google.com type in,frankie silver... 1833, Mrs. Frances Stewart Silver was hanged in Morganton, Burke County, North Carolina, for the ax murder of her husband Charles. Charlie and Frankie Silver are my great, great, great grandparents. good reading..... chuck aka tar_heel |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: masato sakurai Date: 30 Jan 02 - 11:45 AM Notes from The Traditional Ballad Index:
Notes: Various theories have been proposed to explain the origin of this ballad. One theory connects it with the story of Frankie Silvers [Laws E13]. Another links it to the murder of Allen Britt by Frankie Baker in St. Louis, MO, on Oct. 15, 1899 (she was jealous of his relationship with Alice Pryor). (This murder was documented in the October 19, 1899 edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.) Versions have shown a tendency to take on local color and even be connected with local events. - RBW, EC ~Masato
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Subject: ADD Version: Frankie and Albert From: JenEllen Date: 30 Jan 02 - 12:27 PM Frankie and Albert Frankie was a good girl As everybody knows She paid a hundred dollar bill For a suit of Albert's clothes Just because she loved him so
Frankie went down to the bar-room
"I am not a-gonna tell you no story
Frankie went to the house
Frankie stepped out in the back yard
Frankie went down to the river
Frankie reached down in her pocket
"Turn me over Frankie
Frankie looked down on Broadway written to commemmorate the murder of Albert Britt by Miss Frankie Baker. Oct 15, 1899, Frankie confronted Albert about his misterss, Alice Pryor, and Albert attacked Frankie with a knife. Frankie shot in self defense. ~Foster
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Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jan 02 - 01:05 PM Another version of Frankie and Johnny in the DT. For discussion, see this thread: Frankie Two versions of Frankie and Albert are in Lomax and Lomax, 1934, American Ballads and Folk Songs, pp. 103-110. In a footnote, it is stated Frankie still lives (1934) in Seattle. In The American Songbag, Carl Sandburg says that the Frankie and Albert song was common along the Mississippi River and among railroad men as early as 1888. There are hundreds of Frankie versions, some back country and some city. I believe most song detectives agree with the comments in the American ballad Index, that the song was rewritten to fit the Baker-Britt case. The Ballad of Frankie Silvers has been reproduced in a recent novel by Sharon McCrumb based on the trial and hanging of the nineteen-year-old Silvers (1830s). It does not resemble any of the versions of Frankie and Albert-Allen-Johnny. Two versions of Frankie and Johnny may be heard on the Max Hunter Folk Song Collection website. Max Hunter |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Mrrzy Date: 30 Jan 02 - 01:06 PM Way cool. Add to the Origins Found on Mudcat, no? And tarheel, what great ancestry! |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Steve in Idaho Date: 30 Jan 02 - 01:32 PM Beyond way cool!! I've been singing this song for years - time to antiquate it a bit I think! Steve |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: GUEST,Les B. Date: 30 Jan 02 - 01:33 PM Also, there is the version that Charlie Poole did, called "Leaving Home" which can be traced to a song dated 1912 at the Levy Sheet music site. This version was later done by the Kingston Trio, who (in error?) attributed its authorship to Mike Seeger, and others associated with the New Lost City Ramblers, who learned it from Poole's recorded version, circa 1928. "Leaving Home" refers to the fated lovers as "Frankie and Johnny," and has the ".44 gun under the silk kimono" references, but adds a wordy, driving chorus which makes the song more interesting. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Clinton Hammond Date: 30 Jan 02 - 01:41 PM Does anybody else out there, like me, prefer Garnet Rogers song Frankie And Johnny?
Chorus
Geeze it's been a long time since I played that one... *reaching for his guitar* |
Subject: Lyr Add: FRANKIE AND ALBERT (from Lead Belly) From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jan 02 - 02:25 PM FRANKIE AND ALBERT (Lead Belly) Frankie was a good woman, As everybody knows, She did all the work around the house And pressed her Albert's clothes. He was her man, but he done her wrong. Albert was a yeller man, Coal-black curly hair. Everybody up in St. Louis Thought he was a millionaire-- He ws my son, and the only one. Miss Frankie went to the barroom, Called for a bottle of beer, Says to the bartender: "Has Mister Albert been here? He is my man, and he's doin' me wrong." Frankie and Albert were lovers, Oh, my God how they did love! Just like sisters and brothers, The whore and her turtle dove, For he was her man, but she shot him down. The bartender says to Miss Frankie: "I cannot tell a lie; Mister Albert was here about a minute ago With a gal name Alkali, He is your man, but he's doin' you wrong." Little Frankie went down the Broadway With her razor in her hand, Says "Stand aside, you chippie. I'm lookin' for my man, He's a gamblin' man, won't treat me right." Miss Frankie went up the stairway, She didn't go for fun; Underneath the ruffles of her petticoat, She had a young Gatlin' gun. He was her man an' he was doin' her wrong. Miss Frankie opened the winder, The gun she fired twice; The second shot she fired, She took Mister Albert's life-- He was her man, but he was doin' her wrong. Well, when Frankie shot Albert, First, he fell to his knees, Then he looked up in her face, Says, "Frankie, please don't shoot me no mo', Please, babe, don't shoot me no mo'." She shot three bullets in him, He staggered to the door, He gasped, "Oh, Frankie, you can't play 'round, 'Round this hop joint any more. I was your man, but I done you wrong. "Turn me over, Frankie, Turn me over slow, Turn me over easy on my left side So my heart won't overflow And kill me dead, and kill me dead." Took po' Albert to the graveyard, Stuck him in the ground, Frankie, she was singin', "I shot the sucker down-- He was my man, but he done me wrong." The people says to Frankie, "Little Frankie, why don't you run? Yonder comes the Chief Police With a smokeless 44 gun. You killed your man, wouldn't treat you right." "Well," says Miss Frankie, I don't care if I die, Take and hang me to a telegraph pole, Hang me good and high-- He was my man but he done me wrong." Little Frankie went down Broadway As far as she could see, And all she could hear was a two-string bow, Playing, "Nearer, My God To Thee"-- All over the town, little Albert's dead. Frankie went to Albert's mother, Fell across her knees, Said: "I'm sorry I killed your son, Won't you excuse me please? He was my man, but he done me wrong." "I will forgive you, Frankie, I will forgive you not. You sho' shot Albert, He's the only son I got, He was my son, and the only one." Frankie says to the sheriff, "Well, what do you think it'll be?" The sheriff said: "It looks like a case Of murder in the first degree; He was your man, but you shot him down." It was not murder in the first degree, It was not murder in the third, A woman simply dropped her man Like a hunter drops a bird. He was her man, but she shot him down. Frankie said to the sheriff, "Oh, what do you think they'll do?" "Strap you in the 'lectric chair, 'N' send thirty thousand volts through you. Albert was your man, but you shot him down." Passin' through the jail house, Went by Frankie's cell, Asked her how she was feelin', She said, "Go to Hell." He was her man, but she shot him down. Once more I saw Frankie, She was sittin' in her chair, Waitin' for to go an' meet her God, With the sweat drippin' out her hair. Albert was her man, but she shot him down. Took Frankie to the graveyard And stuck her in the ground, Now all that's left of Frankie Is a wooden cross and mound. He was her man- both dead and gone. Two little pieces of crape, Hangin' on the door, Show that lovin' Albert Ain't lovin' Albert no more. Frankie shot her man, who was doin' her wrong. @ballad @folk @Negro Collected by Lomax from Lead Belly at the Angola Prison, Louisiana. American Ballads and Folk Songs, 1934, pp. 105-110. Perhaps one of the longest songs collected from Lead Belly (Hudie Leadbeater). |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jan 02 - 07:43 PM Versions of The Ballad of Frankie Silver HERE |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Gypsy Date: 30 Jan 02 - 09:08 PM Guess it should be HERstory, huh, Mrrrrrzzzzyyy? Anyway, have a friend writing a book, and he wants to use this one as an example of a ballad. Thorough guy that he is, wants the "rest of the story" Thanks for the help, all. Will be able to kluge together something for him out of this! Will letcha know when book is available: Music theory demystified for the Folk Musician. the galleys are quite good. I can now tell my mixolydians from my majors. ;0) |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:14 PM Thomas Hart Benton's mural of The Social History of the State of Missouri on the walls of the House Lounge in the State Capitol Building in Jefferson City, Missouri...whew...has Frankie and Johnny in the mural. Of course this perpetuates the St. Louis theory. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Rolfyboy6 Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:28 PM Just a mention of Mississippi John Hurt's great version of "Frankie and Albert". It's on one or two of the Vanguard Newport Cds and on the "Legend" CD. A classic rendition. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Louie Roy Date: 30 Jan 02 - 10:44 PM The song Frankie and Johnny as most of us have been singing for 70 years was written and recorded by Jimmie Rodgers in 1929 Louie Roy |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Stewie Date: 31 Jan 02 - 01:42 AM Also have a look at the discussion of the song on the ballad list, in particular item 003451 by John Garst: --Stewie. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 31 Jan 02 - 05:46 PM Interesting post by Garst. The earliest Frankie Silver ballad I found was 1939, from Randolph, although it is supposed to be much older. Does anyone have an earlier version? |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: gd303uk Date: 31 May 09 - 02:05 PM not sure if this has been posted before but this is a good essay by paul slade that i think would help with the history of this song. http://www.planetslade.com/frankie-and-johnny1.html |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 31 May 09 - 02:49 PM Nicely summarized, with the newspaper articles. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Azizi Date: 31 May 09 - 02:59 PM gd303uk, here's the hyperlink for that website. http://www.planetslade.com/frankie-and-johnny1.html |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: Azizi Date: 31 May 09 - 03:06 PM I know that there was another recently refreshed thread about the planetslade website, perhaps about its interesting article on Stagolee (the spelling used on that site is Stagger Lee) http://www.planetslade.com/stagger-lee1.html . But I can't find that Mudcat thread. |
Subject: RE: Help: History on Frankie and Johnny From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 May 09 - 04:30 PM RE: I can't find that Mudcat thread.
Az - your "innocence" is astounding.
What gd303uk posted WAS the "hyperlink" - a Blue Clicky does not make it more so.
Regarding your most helpful reposting of Slade - you devoted one of your LONG instructional dialogues to the subject at the beginning of THIS very Month to the subject. And included Mudcat search tutoring.
1. Place "Stagger Lee" in the Lyric & Knowledge Search 2. Check FORUM 3. Click SEARCH 4. Sort by DATE
AZ - come on ! Your stuff is at the top of the list
Sincerely,
Give a man a fish.... |
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