BS: Instruments and air travel

Subject: Instruments and air travel
From: Benjamin
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 07:15 PM

As I was checking in for my flight to NY for an audition at Suny Purchase, I was told that I had to check my guitar right there, couldn't even gate check it. With my audition on Saturday and my hotel fee having already been charged, I didn't really have any other choice. It thankfully wasn't harmed through all the traveling. On my way back home, I was aloud to carry it on the plane, though was stopped in the middle of the gate on my way into the plane for a "random" security check, after having gotten through metal dectors and soldiers armed with m-16's. When I got back to Seattle, I met a violin player who was asking about these experiences. Her and her friends have been in the papper as they have refused to check their insturments in her case, was forced to miss a flight. A friend of hers had to buy an extra ticket, then had to store her insturment in the overhead compartment.
Now I understand why we have all of this heightend security, but am I the only one who thinks this might all be going just a little to far. I mean, for students like myself or these violin players, were just bring our insturments along for the heck of it. These are our futures that we must now trust in the hand of baggage handlers. They don't care, and we have no gaurentee of what condition they will come out in. Also, if something does happen, the airlines won't give you anything more than maybe $1000 dollars if anything, which doesn't come close to replacing most our insturments (epecially a decent violin). Upon arriving in New York, I needed my insturment right then and there to prepare for and play my audition. Any amount of money wouldn't of helped when I would of needed it (thank God I didn't need it).
On a somewhat of a side note, Alaska is apperently the worst about this (United wasn't great though).

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Anahootz
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 07:48 PM

I don't know about AlaskaAir being the worst. As an Alaska resident, if I want to go ANYWHERE I have to go at least partway on Alaska...I have NEVER been asked to check my mandolins, period. One is in a formed case, the other in an oversize rectangular case (32"x14"x6"). As a precaution, both cases are fitted and have oversized, well-padded headstock nests.

Check with your carrier concerning insurance. I recently sent a mandolin to Seattle on an AK Air flight, and was able to insure it for the full $4500. If they won't insure it, send it as cargo, then you can buy as much insurance as needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 07:51 PM

That's what I've heard too. Alaska Airlines is telling callers that the only way you can carry on a guitar is to buy a second seat. (Believe me- I'd claim that second seat for my own use!) On the other hand, a friend who recently returned to Juneau said that a seatmate had been allowed to carry on and stow overhead his classic guitar. You suppose the nylon strings make the difference??

The other day a friend went through the Idaho Falls, Idaho airport and they (Horizon Air, a sister company to Alaska) made her send her ticket and her passport through on the belt. Worse yet, they then 'wanded' her, without first allowing her to retrieve her ticket and passport. She was quite upset- as she said, suppose someone had picked it up- there she'd be without ID or a flight ticket. She's going to write a letter of complaint to the home company.

These are strange times, indeed. I hope that eventually they will come up with logical rules, applied consistently.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 08:11 PM

I imagine sooner or later some crafty entrepreneur will set up a musical analogy of a hire car service at airports.

Actually something like that might be really useful. Someone do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 08:56 PM

I would love to hear further details about the lady who allegedly had to buy a ticket and was then forced to store her violin in the overhead. It has a faint whiff of urban myth about it to me. I mean, if you were forced to buy a ticket for your instrument, wouldn't you insist on using the seat?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Benjamin
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 11:19 PM

Ebbie, Classical Guitar is what I have and play. Nylon didn't make any difference on the way there.
Murry, the story of the girl who bought an extra seat than had to store her insturment in the overhead compartment has made some papers. I'm sure if you search, you could find it. But when it comes to airplanes, you either do exactly what security tells you or you don't fly (as examples above will demonstrate). They don't care what you insist on.
Ana, The violin player I met told me to never fly Alaska as I'd have no chance of getting on the plane. I'm glad to hear that your not having those experiences though. Still, I don't see why I should be paying more for an extra seat or insurance just for being a musician. As a student and a musician, I don't have that kind of money.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 11:34 PM

Benjamin, as I say, I would love to hear the full story.

If she was in fact forced to use the overhead and still had to pay for a seat, then I would assume that in due course she obtained reimbursement from the airline, along with a little extra for her inconvenience.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Amergin
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 11:36 PM

small folks trying to make themselves seem important....

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 11:50 PM

Benjamin, it has just occurred to me that a more likely scenario is that the lady bought a seat for the violin on her own accord, but that the cabin staff decided it should be stowed in the overhead for (perceived) safety reasons.

I cannot believe the airline forced her to buy an extra seat and then made her stow it. Doesn't compute.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 01:42 PM

In Juneau, Alaska we have to fly Alaska Airlines. There is no other airline that comes here. In the past Delta served Juneau in the summertime but stopped about 10 years ago. For several years, recently, MarkAir tried to break Alaska's hold but there was no way they could hang on.

This is not true in Anchorage or Fairbanks; they both have national/international lines.

What's that slogan: We're only as good as our competition makes us? Alaska could use some competition.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: JedMarum
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 04:42 PM

It is actually quite unreasonable to expect to carry a guitar on baord an aircraft, under any circumstances. They are typically just too darn big to be practical in the cabin. I know airlines have tried to accommodate us in years past, but with full flights, lots and lots of carry on baggage - it is normally just unreasonable to carry a guitar on-board. Violins, mandos, small instruments are another story. I could probably fit my full sized television inside an overhead, if I worked at it - but that would be terribly incovenient to other passengers, and make getting on and off the plane much more difficult for everyone else.

I have flown a lot over the years and I have never even tried to carry my guitar or banjo on-board. I use checked baggage to transport them, always make sure that I have insurance for their full replacement cost - and I never carry an instrument that I wouldn't be able to replace. I love my guitar, butI ove the model, the maker - if it was crushed today, I;d go buy another just like it!

And security? Well, last September I was a bit surprised to find that my harmonicas were a bit too weaponlike to be carried on board ... but I didn't really mind checking them, and the airline (American) was gracious about getting them back to the check-in counter.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 05:51 PM

I can see it now..."take this plane to Cuba, or I'll play ANOTHER tune!"...harmonicas???? *sigh*

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 08:31 PM

I've checked guitars several times and they've come out okay. Once the guitar was delayed for two days, however, which would make an audition difficult!

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 04:01 AM

Hi

All you guitarists should think yourself lucky, just slacklen off a few strings, get it into the coat locker if your lucky, fiddlers can usually get it in the overhead locker.

I play the piano accordion, every time I fly I have to take apart the bass stuff it with foam, put it in s huge flight case and put it in the hold...then of course hope it comes back in one piece!!

The clod hold temperature does the reed no good and the bass buttons usually fall under even though I stuff it.

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 04:18 AM

Anybody know the words to Tom Paxton's song, "Thank You, Republic Airlines! [for breaking the neck of my guitar]"? I heard him sing it once but the words are nowhere to be found in my foundering memory.

Here's what you do: Buy a $50 guitar at WalMart or Costco or the like, pack it in a hardshell case with FRAGILE--MUSICAL INSTRUMENT stickers all over it...and put your Taylor in a cardboard box held together with duct tape. Guaranteed, the beater will be beaten up and your jewel will survive! [CAUTION: INTENDED FOR COMIC EFFECT ONLY. DO NOT ATTEMPT.]

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: GUEST,Tooligan
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 04:22 AM

Heathrow in London gets my vote for the worst baggage handlers. I have had two guitar cases badly damaged. Fortunately the guitar inside made it through, but I cannot even imagine how they managed to inflict such damage on a case considering all they do is manhandle it on to trolleys and into holds! It must be an art they pick up from previous past masters when they start. We have also had more luggage go missing through Heathrow, including instruments, including once when we were flying business class as guests of the general manager of British Airways Middle East. Mind you, that was much more interesting because on this occasion, we called the shots.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: alanww
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 06:29 AM

Say, all you guys, why not trade all those large instruments in for a concertina, which I can keep in my hand luggage!

Squeezing and singing!
[|||||]
Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Songsmith
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 06:38 AM

Hello,

If you travel a lot invest in a proper case. I also insist the guitar is hand carried to the trolley. I've had no problems since I started doing both of the above but many before.

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Grab
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 09:07 AM

A decent hardshell case is the best move (and make sure the strings are slackened off).

As for stashing the violin in an overhead locker, consider what would happen if you hit bad turbulence or the plane had some problems? You can strap in but the violin can't, and 4-5lbs of violin smashing someone in the head is not exactly going to make their day, besides incidentally busting the violin. The attendants in that case were protecting your friend's instrument from your friend! ;-)

If you need your instrument to be insured, take responsibility for it yourself. A carrier will only pay up the full price if they have to, so better is to make sure you have adequate insurance for your instrument and then let the insurance company fight it out with the carrier if there's any damage. If your instrument isn't insured now, then get it insured!

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: JedMarum
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 09:21 AM

The maker of my guitar says do NOT slacken strings. He says the instrument is made to be stressed by the strings and if they are slackened it is less balanced and more susceptable to damage. He does reccommend packing the head carefully with paper or bubble wrap to be dure it doesn't get bumped around inside the case.

I have flown many times with instruments and never had a problem (yet). In fact, they have always arrived in-tune!

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 09:27 AM

Uhh, Jed, I cannot buy that one. I am glad you have been lucky so far, but there is no way that leaving the instrument strung to pitch can reduce the probability of damage.

Any chance you could contact the maker of your instrument and ask him to explain further?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 09:31 AM

The only time I saw my father cry was when he found out my sister had checked his guitar on some flight and it had been damaged beyond repair... so I understand the fear of checking anything valuable or fragile. However, you aren't paying extra because you are musicians, you are paying extra to protect something extra and precious, and that is only fair. What was allowed in the past wasn't normal for today's climes, whereas what is going on now, really is, much as I miss the good old days of being able to get away with almost anything! Also, anything that doesn't fit inside a seat belt properly MUST be stored overhead or under seat, or the plane can't leave the terminal, so it wasn't ridiculous to store that violin from the point of view of the flight crew... but meanwhile, it might have seemed perfectly reasonable to the sales people that to carry something extra, you'd need an extra seat. The ticket BUYER should have been savvy enough to say Why, since it can't sit down but will have to be stowed? - if she had travelled by plane a lot, she'd know that... so it still smacks of urban legend to me, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: JedMarum
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 09:50 AM

I know the conventional wisdom says loosen the strings - but Jean Larrivee did write to me personally, and did explain, as I have above - that his reccommendation was to keep the strings tuned to full pitch, that reduction of stress on the neck/frame as a result of slackening strings was potentially more harmful to the intrument. I took him at his word. I never loosen the strings of my instruments and I always pack the heads (and I have well made hard shell cases). They have always arrived unharmed and in tune.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 09:50 AM

Since hardshell cases are not hand tailored for your individual instruments, you have to secure them with bubbles or paper to avoid bumping inthe case.
Following the German Army's Regulations for boxes and crates I learned that you can fix holders in the inside which hinder the heavy goods (esp. shells and grenades) from moving during transport. Similar precautions can be made in rectangular boxes for instruments. If you can't do it by yourself, join your local joiner.
Another method is filling the the box or case with special foam and only a spare room the instrument fits exactly into, like the cases for recorders (at least in Germany this is standard). Friend of mine did it, but alas, he stopped his business and moved.
Yeah, Heathrow ... Another friend of mine got the mechanics of his brass bass demolished, fortunately on the way back after our performance. Bought a hardshell case immediately after the repair. Transport in the hold did the instrument no harm by temperature; Whe transporting string or reed instruments, consider a good insulation in the case. Shouldn't be a grand technical problem.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Grab
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 01:05 PM

Re Wilfried's suggestion of adding packing round an instrument, the absolute best solution is to use the case as a suitcase. Pack the guitar round with socks, undies, T-shirts, etc, add a couple of shirts across the top to keep the shirts flat, and you'll probably find you can get the rest of your gear in your carryon luggage without requiring an extra suitcase (at least for short trips), plus incidentally protecting your instrument from knocks as well.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Instruments and air travel
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 07 Mar 02 - 12:03 AM

I bought a Calton Case (made in Canada) and I can't recommend it highly enough. These cases are tailored to fit different sizes - mine's a dreadnought - and the instrument is held in place tighter than a crab's ass in an undersea sandstorm, safe from damage. I always have checked my guitar, strings loosened, and I've never had an accident or lost one yet. Plus, arguing with airline personnel and security these days is liable to get you arrested. There have been other threads on this very topic, right after 9/11 if I remember correctly. Perhaps some kind 'Catter will provide the blue clicky.

Seamus