 sj |
||
|
||
Tech: lost hard drive ?
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jun 09 - 11:13 AM The software on the disk will turn itself off from "autorun" and supposedly will remove itself from the device, but that doesn't seem to be working. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:43 AM This came from Dell. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:19 AM What's worked for me (after being in a similar situation) is buying thumb drives from some of the better manufacturers that don't put any of that crap on 'em in the first place. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Jun 09 - 11:48 AM I'll bring this thread back because in this instance I'm trying to get rid of a partition on a thumb drive. It's one that has it's own software and launches it every time it is plugged in. I've removed a lot of this stuff, but am down to having two partitions on this 4 gig drive and I want to merge them and remove the read-only zip file that the Cruzer folks put in place. I get a message saying I can't delete it and Partition Magic doesn't notice this drive when I start it up. It sees my internal and two external hard drives. I can't find a way to bring this thumb drive to it's attention, but I'd like to use a program that will just crunch the Cruzer files then merge the partitions. Anyone else have to dumb down an uppity thumb drive? What worked? Thanks! SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Mar 05 - 02:00 PM This weekend I think I'll be reading some of those articles and contemplating the "fix." It's a busy week, and these kinds of things aren't done easily on the fly. But I'd rather be out digging up my veggie garden. :-/ |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 03 Mar 05 - 04:15 AM SRS - Recent Windows versions allow a choice of several "modes," and it's possible one or more of them may do things differently than I'm used to. I assume you're using "classic view"(?). WinExplorer should be one of the "systems" that's good to go with the DEP; but at least one of the articles I looked at indicated that another program - that gets closed when it violates DEP - may leave mangled memory pages that will make it look later like Explorer caused a violation. It should be in one of those that I put up links for 01 Mar 05 - 07:20 PM, but I don't recall offhand which one. The suspicion would be that that's what you're seeing. If you can get a reading on one of the first error messages after a reboot and identify an "other program," uninstalling it, or getting an update for it, are likely to be the most productive things to do. Several fairly common AV programs are mentioned in the list of "incompatibles" although they're not specific in the list about which ones are incompatible due to DEP. You can turn off DEP, and one of the articles gives instructions for doing it. I would expect that you'd rather find the problem and fix it, so you can leave DEP on though. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Mar 05 - 11:13 PM John, I'm an old pro at using the right click and cut and paste looking at properties and such. But it hasn't been working in Windows Explorer, it has been crashing instead. That was the point I was trying to make, and why I asked if anyone else had encountered this. The information the system gave me said that it was protecting the system with Data Execution Protection. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:21 PM Oops. "You can also use Paste (Ctl-V) to put a new filename on a file..." (I didn't have anyplace to copy from and paste, hence the typo.) I should note, that above references to "click on a file" mean click on the filename end of the file entry in Explorer. Since clicking on the filename after the file has been selected will open the filename edit function, it's a good idea to practice clicking specifically on the icon at the end of the file entry rather than just "anywhere close" if you really mean just to select that file. Clicking twice on the icon doesn't do much of anything, unless it's quick enough to look like a double-click. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:11 PM SRS - For looking at properties, you need to right click on the file name and then click on Properties. If you left click once, it should "select" the file. If you left click again, it should open the filename so that you can type a new name or edit the existing one. The end result is the same, regardless of which way you do it. The background, usually blue, that shows the file is selected "shrinks in" to show that the filename is editable. Click the icon for the file, hit Enter, or just click on another file, and the "edit" should close. It's a lot faster than right click - select rename. The only hazard is that if your double-click speed is set too slow the second click may look like the second half of a double-click and you end up opening the file. You can also use the "filename edit" feature for record keeping since you can COPY (Ctl-C) the filename when it's open for edit, to past the exact long filename in use somewhere, as in a document or log. When I paste a picture in a document, I often like to paste the filename with it, and copying the filename directly from Explorer avoids a lot of typos. You can also use Paste (Ctl-P) to put a new filename on a file, if the filename is opened for edit. This "slow two-click edit" actually should work in anything from Win3.11 on. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Mar 05 - 11:38 AM John, I do the same thing when it comes to numbering and using the name box. I right click to get at menu information for changing file names and such, and when I encountered this problem I was working on arranging some folders in a hierarchy. But you probably know how it goes--you do something so often that you don't even think about what you're doing--you think "I want to look at something" and your hand just clicks, without your thinking "I need to mouse over a file name and right click once or twice." So I have to watch what it was I was doing. As long as I carefully did a single left click it was cooperating. I'll emulate the problem again later and write down the code. It's something I want to keep track of, because I'm sure I'll run into it again somewhere else. Liz, part of the problem with losing my expansion space (my old HP Pavilion had tons of space, the new one is already full, now that I've added a floppy) was solved by picking up an external hard drive enclosure. I'm not sure what the insurance folks are going to say about this, but it accomplishes what I wanted with the tall case on my old computer. The way to put a hard drive into use that isn't the same one as my external free-standing hard drive. It works out functionally about the same, but this can (at this time) hold a much larger disk drive for a lot less money (in other words, I could get two of these and use one as my external backup drive and one as my expansion room but that's not the setup I had before so the insurance folks probably wouldn't pay for it). What you could have done with something like this is take the old hard drive out of the first computer, plug it into the HD enclosure, and run it like a slave drive. It would cut out one step. If they ever find my other computer, I'll take that hard drive, plug it into this box, and transfer all of my important files. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:22 AM SRS - I haven't noticed a problem with right-clicking in WinExplorer. There is a "general" setup that allows you to single-click to open, and that setting could have a real effect on Explorer. I don't use it, since it interferes with being able to edit filenames just by clicking on them in Explorer. In Explorer, Tools, Folder Options, General Tab, select either "open on single click" or "click to select, double-click to open." If you turn off the "open on single click," you can click on a file to select it, click (left) again on the filename to open the filename for editing, change the filename, click anywhere else or hit enter to close the edit. (This may still work in Explorer with the single-click setting, but I haven't tried it.) I don't know if it still works with single-click opening set, but I use the method for "Save As" a lot in several programs. If you click on the last file you saved (while the filename box is selected), that name is copied into the save-as filename box. Click the box again to reselect and open the name for edit, click once more to set the cursor location in the name, change the last digit to the next number, and enter. Gives you an ordered set of files without having to type the whole name for each one. It works great when I've scanned 50 or so unnamed files into my Twain and need to rename them all as I save. And I believe it's actually Explorer that displays the names in the "Save" or "Save As" boxes in most Win programs. Even if you have the "single click to open" set up, a failure of Explorer to distinguish left click and right click - could be what's happening? - might suggest a mouse driver that needs an update to WinXP SR2 compatible? A lot of "WinXP compatible" drivers may need a tweak to be "WinXP SR2 compatible." John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:15 AM Data Execution Protection can be worked in more than one way... 1) Build the OS correctly in the first place so it doesn't allow buffer overruns etc Bill didn't want to do that... 2) Build the Apps correctly etc.... 3) tack on some crap afterwards which will most likely have hole in it anyway and slow things down, and cripple pre-existing stuff... |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:09 AM Data Execution Protection? Excuse me for being suspicious, but it sounds so much like standard microsoft Commercial Sabotage to me. I seem to recall the scenario running a bit like this... 1) Take some popular programmes which people use instead of paying a fortune for some bloated Microsoft programme which does a considerably poorer job. 2) Find something in Windoze OS which the programme needs to run. 3) Deliberately alter the next update / patch to disable this feature and henceforth cripple the competition, leaving your computer user with no option other than to 4) Buy and install the inferior Microsoft programme. The US High Courts took action against the one to cripple Netscape a few years back, but plenty of others seem to have slipped through the net. Qack! GtD. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:37 AM Oh Geoff, you know me so well.... We invested in an external hard drive thingy. We downloaded all the memory from the old computer, isolated it, debugged it, and have managed to reload about 99.9% of everything back onto the new computer. Of about 400 pictures, I reckon I lost about 5, which is a pretty good ratio considering we nearly lost the whole damn lot. This time, I'm going to put a whole heap of stuff onto CDRoms so that at least I have another copy if the worst should happen again. All I can say is.... RTFM! Read The F(!&ing Manual! If a programme says it isn't compatable with Microsoft - IT PROBABLY ISN'T! Our problems were caused by Manitas trying to download a programme for a digital video camera. We've got some rules now.... 1. Be extra careful when loading new programmes. 2. Always keep a backup. 3. Do some housekeeping at least once a month, if not every week! LTS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Mar 05 - 10:35 PM I scribbled a few letters that looked like a file, but I have a question mark next to them, so I'll get the entire message next time I see it. I can narrow this down--I use Win Explorer a lot, and I do a lot of right-clicking as I work to look at the properties of folders. In this latest XP Pro version on this computer it doesn't seem to like right-clicking in this venue. Win Explorer closes immediately if I right-click on the folder I want to see more of. I will pay more attention and report back. And perhaps I need to get out of the habit of right-clicking in this program. Thanks for taking the trouble to track those sources down--I'll read a few of those tomorrow and report back. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 01 Mar 05 - 08:08 PM I now run AMS Fast Defrag Freeware - it's a memory tool - and have fewer problems now in 98SE - there's a Pro paid version too |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Mar 05 - 07:25 PM An afterthought: The error message should name the program that violated the NX protection. In most cases it will close the program automatically. The program that's the cause of it all - even after it's closed - may leave "damage" in RAM pages that can cause a Windows process (WinExplorer?) to fail later and be reported as in violation of DEP. Maybe.... John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Mar 05 - 07:20 PM SRS - slight delay. I had to look this one up again. Microsoft Windows XP Embedded: Data Execution Prevention from the Microsoft Developers Network Library, doesn't give much more than a definition, but has links to how you can "embed" the feature into programs you write. What's significant at this point is that it does offer the alternate terminology "NX" – for non-execute. The feature can be done in software if you don't have an enabled processor. This may be the one you already quoted? The article appears under MSDN "Best Practices for Security," subtopic "Local Security Considerations." The error is unlikely to be coming from Win Explorer, but another process – probably from an installed program – can cause an error in a "Windows essential process" like WinExplorer. If you are only doing file transfers, and don't have another program active, it's most likely to be caused by something that loads out of Start or Startup. It could possibly be caused by an AV or AS program, or a cookie blocker that isn't aware of the "new" malloc (pardon - memory allocation) requirements for systems using NX. If you're doing massive transfers it's possible that your computer is trying to use NX memory pages for temps, and hits a clinker when an executable file is copied into a disallowed part of memory. I don't have enough info to tell whether just copying an executable without opening it is a possible trigger. Some AV programs attempt to scan any files that you move, particularly if the move is from one drive to another. Data Execution Prevention is another MSDN article that gives more of a basic "theory of DEP/NX," but probably isn't too helpful to anyone not writing code. It shouldn't take a lot of "code smarts" to see why older programs can run into problems with this system, from what's in this last article; but it's not something you really need to know to work the fix. When you find out what program is causing the problem, this might be the one to refer the builder to when he says he doesn't know what you're talking about. CHECK THIS ONE: You receive a "Data Execution Prevention" error message in Windows XP Service Pack 2 or in Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 is a little more helpful. It gives a step-by-step procedure for a workaround, but says you really should "contact the program builder for an update." This last article gives some info on what you can do and what you can't in each of the DEP modes. My guess is that you haven't found/gotten to the right mode to apply the setting you want, or you haven't identified the right program to add to the exceptions list. Unfortunately, if you have, or if you do, get into the right mode, you probably still will have to figure out what program/process is the trigger in order to work around it. It's fairly safe to bet that Windows Explorer is NOT the process that causes the problem. WinExp just dies because something else ate part of its brain. If you can't identify the program that's causing the error message, about the only way I can think of for finding it would be to uninstall suspects one at a time and see if the problem goes away. There probably is a better way, but … You receive a Stop error when a driver is not compatible with the Data Execution Prevention (DEP) feature in Windows XP Service Pack 2 or in Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 offers another source for DEP error – a driver – but the error message looks different than what you've described. This article does tell you how you can turn off DEP/NX protection completely; but you should consider that a "last resort." You cannot install Paint Shop Pro 8 in Windows XP Service Pack 2 or in Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 indicates that PSP8 is not compatible with DEP. If that's one of the programs you have installed, it goes high on the suspect list. Note that "you cannot install" means that the installation fails, not necessarily that the program can't run. There is a workaround using a modified install method for this program. "Installers" generally seem to have problems here. Programs that are known to experience a loss of functionality when they run on a Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer gives some specific programs, and links to some others and/or fixes. Note that this list includes programs that may fail for reasons other than DEP. Also note that there are several AV programs on the list, and several programs whose Installers and UnInstallers fail. More Background: A detailed description of the Data Execution Prevention (DEP) feature in Windows XP Service Pack 2 and Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005. This gives a less-geek explanation. Consider it "nice to know later" for now. I don't think it gives any specific solutions, but some of our more nerdy folk may be interested in a quick look to see what's being talked up. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:16 PM Have you seen this new thing in XP Pro called "Data Execution Prevention"? This is the blurb I come up with when I click on a link to learn more:
Unlike a firewall or antivirus program, DEP does not help prevent harmful programs from being installed on your computer. Instead, it monitors your programs to determine if they use system memory safely. To do this, DEP software works alone or with compatible microprocessors to mark some memory locations as "non-executable". If a program tries to run code—malicious or not—from a protected location, DEP closes the program and notifies you. DEP can take advantage of software and hardware support. To use DEP, your computer must be running Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) or later, or Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 or later. DEP software alone helps protect against certain types of malicious code attacks but to take full advantage of the protection that DEP can offer, your processor must support "execution protection". This is a hardware-based technology designed to mark memory locations as non-executable. If your processor does not support hardware-based DEP, it's a good idea to upgrade to a processor that offers execution protection features. I'm working with a new computer and I'm trying to put files on my hard drive from disks. I am moving some of the folders around as I rethink how I want to organize them. But every time I click on an important sub-folder in "My Documents" in Windows Explorer, it crashes, simply going away, or giving me an error message and saying it wants to report back to the MotherShip (And you thought it only meant MickySoft!) A note at the bottom states By default, DEP is only turned on for essential Windows operating system programs and services. To help protect more programs with DEP, select Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select. When I follow the directions to get to the settings for this feature, the only program on the list is Windows Explorer. There are two radio buttons. By default the first is selected and it says "Turn on DEP for essential Windows programs and services only." Below it is the choice "Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select:" and when it is toggled, Windows Explorer is the only program in the box, though I can add and remove programs. In a kind of reverse logic, I'm afraid that if I check the Windows Explorer box that I'll be blocked from everything else. I think perhaps I need to go to the bottom and "Remove" Windows Explorer from the list. Hmmm. I guess this means that if I add other stuff and don't check it, it won't be affected. So Windows Explorer is the only over-arching program initially set up for Data Execution Prevention. I wonder if there is a way to fine tune this? For now I need to turn this off. At least for now. It is blocking my ability to work with my files and folders. What compelling reasons for using or not using this have any of you come across? As it is, the program is essentially denying me the easy access to folders or directories on the drive, but I haven't found a protocol-driven way to work with them. Any thoughts? John? SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Feb 05 - 04:28 AM Foolestroupe - I can remember spending 10 hours per day for 3 days in a row trying to get an optimum interleave on my 30 MB hard drive. Now I've got several individual Word documents bigger than that. Gibson's SpinRite was an essential tool too. It took about 3 months for the heads to bend enough to start missing bits. Being able to "reformat" (actually just "re-track") without moving the data saved millions of floppies. I still remember the first time I saw the specs on the first "brand new" hard drive that used MFM-RLL and wasn't a scuzzy. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 28 Feb 05 - 01:56 AM Ahh JiK - that last link brings back memories (pardon the pun!), but what about HD 'skew-factor' interleaves eh? ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Feb 05 - 10:34 AM Another one of John's "terse" contributions to Mudcat. The post counter should count keystrokes instead of messages and you'd shoot way up that list! :) SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 27 Feb 05 - 02:03 AM Most of the format and partition info in Microsoft documentation was written for Win95, Win98, and WinME, with a few articles specifically to try to get Win2K people to give up the old ways and get with NTFS. Win2K and later have "wizards" that do things the way you're supposed to, so you only need documentation if you find a need to "bend the rules." Articles that I've pulled recently that may be helpful: MS-DOS Partitioning Summary: Article ID 69912 a rather old article that gives a summary of what partition types can be used with various DOS versions, through Win98. A linked article, Order in Which MS-DOS Assigns Drive Letters: Article ID 51978 may be helpful. Should be good through WinME. Overview of FAT, HPFS, and NTFS File Systems: Article ID 100108 gives a brief summary of the formats that can be used with various Windows and NT versions. Description of Default Cluster Sizes for FAT32 File System: Article ID 192322 gives a little more specific info for just FAT32. Description of the FAT32 File System: Article ID 154997 gives more info on the FAT32 format. Applies to Win versions through WinME. Common Questions About the FAT32 File System : Article ID 253774 gives answers to a few questions about the FAT32 format, applicable to Win versions through WinME. Default Cluster Size for FAT and NTFS: Article ID 140365 gives information you need it you plan to repartition. Choosing an appropriate cluster size is an essential step in getting the partition size you expect. (Note that a strict reading of applicability would limit this document to use with Win2K, NT and Server 2003 versions.) Dynamic vs. Basic Storage in Windows 2000: Article ID 175761 written for Win2K, but the same principles apply to WinXP and to most server versions. Hard Disk Limited to 8-GB Partition: Article ID 153550 info on the partition size limit for early Win95, Win98, and WinME. May help if there's a question about what sizes you can use. How to Use the Fdisk Tool and the Format Tool to Partition or Repartition a Hard Disk: Article ID 255867 is a long article with lots of stuff in it, but strictly applicable to WinME and earlier. Maximum Partition Size Using FAT16 File System: Article ID : 118335 the article that states that WinME and earlier can format a partition (4GB) that's larger than they can use(2GB). Note that this specific limit may not apply for OEM version of the OS, and/or for updated versions with suitable BIOS. This is just scratching the surface of what's available. The only problem is figuring out how to get to what you need. Maybe the way they've phrased the title will suggest something useful to someone. One extra, for Nostalgia Nuts: The Four Steps Needed to Make a Hard Disk Usable: Article ID : 66706 applicable to "XT or AT computers running MS-DOS." John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:37 PM You need to be sure that any partitions are well-thought-out. A partition may have a drive letter but not be "recognized" by Windows because it is too far out to be used for booting the computer. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means that it doesn't have the full functionality of a drive positioned better on the disk. I haven't looked at the partitions on this new computer of mine yet, though I can tell that HP has set it up so the recovery information is on the "D" drive on the hard drive. As you say, it has been a busy week. Time to check out partitions will come along later. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:37 PM In order to Boot (DOS/Windoze) - you need a Primary Partition - it can only have 1 drive letter. An Extended Partition is the other type that DOS/Windoze recognises - it can have multiple 'partitions' inside it - each of which will be given a separate drive letter. The disadvantage of having no primary partition on your second drive is that if the first drive goes belly up, you can;t get running quickly by using the second drive without mucking about with it to give it a primary partition which you can make bootable. For me the 'disadvantage' of having D drive on the second had drive is greatly outweighed by the ease of future potential 'disaster proofing'. Robin |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:31 PM I've been very busy this week and have not had time to start messing about with computers so am not much further on than a week back. I was just re-reading the whole of this thread to check that I haven't missed any important comments before I try to move onto next phase. I just spotted a possible workaround for the Drive Letter shifting. The help article Blickied by Nutty says that if you partition Hard Drive number two but make the partition an "Extended Partition" (whatever that is), then apparently Windows will not give it a "Drive leter" of its own. I haven't yet tried to find if I can do this. I'll keep the questions and solutions updated. Quack! Geoff. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Amos Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:21 PM It may be legend but I read a story of an engineer who actually added WOM units to his company's product catalogue with a price and specifications. He got several serious enquiries, according to the tale. Go figger!! A |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:08 PM Geoff, to get back to the original question you asked, how is your system working? And what are you finding with the DVD backup possibilities? SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 26 Feb 05 - 10:22 AM Jon - I'm sure that Liz the Squeak could find a good use for a chocolate fireguard.... :0) Quack! Geoff. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Feb 05 - 08:42 PM The original WOM is /dev/null, although technically you CAN TRY to read from it - |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 05 - 02:07 PM I think my OCR has more problem with "her" kitties' pawprints than with the coffee stains. Accuracy seems to be inversely proportional to the length of the document scanned. Something like Number of Errors is proportional to the 1.3 power of number of characters. I have learned that when scanning newspaper clippings it's almost an absolute necessity to put a BLACK backing paper behind the page when you scan, to cut the bleedthrough from the other side; but one of the cats has a taste for my black backup sheets, and keeps chewing on them, so there's never one handy when I need it. Most printer paper is thick/opaque enough to get a clean scan without backup. I do run into the problem of my OCR trying to read multi-column text as graphics, so I usually Photoshop the scans to single column if it's anything large. Now is this thread drift? John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Feb 05 - 01:50 PM Exactly. I use the standard Times New Roman font that is easily recognized by the OCR software. This OCR proofing is a great opportunity to read and edit my work at the same time. Hopefully the character recognition software will overlook occasional tea cup rings/stains. :) SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:48 PM SRS - Not true WOM (Write Only Memory). More like W1M (Write ONCE Memory). All you need is a scanner and good OCR. (And lots of time and patience to edit the "recognized" stuff.) John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Feb 05 - 10:16 AM I used Ghost successfully and will go ahead and repurchase it. I have a DVD burner now, and Geoff makes a great point--it should save on the work since so much more data can be sent to them. I did several times test Ghost and at least one time did a complete system restore from it. (Thank goodness I had it and had tested it! The first couple of times I tried the system test it I didn't have the correct media drivers installed. Pay very close attention to the restore disks, and overkill on drivers is not a bad thing.) Here is my version of Write Only Memory. I hope to hell I have a few versions of some of my scholarly papers in this format. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 05 - 09:49 AM Unfortunately - lots of people who are verrrrry careful about making their backups never check to see whether they can actually restore anything from them. Might as well use the WOM. I've seen some very embarassed sys admins at at least 3 "big name" companies who discovered it was a one way alley a little too late. A more common problem for us little guys is that many of the "backup" methods are bulk jobs, and you can't easily restore just a few files. You have to put the whole batch back, and then throw out what you didn't want. There's often not enough room left to get it all back - unless you back up and remove other stuff to make space, restore the batch, throw away the crap, and then restore the stuff you had to move to restore the stuff... (am I going in circles here?) I find CDs about as rational as anything, but I'm still looking for better. A CD file format a little more similar to hard drives would make it a lot easier; but I don't expect the whole industry to change - especially since the standards have been out of print for about n+3 decades now, so nobody really knows how they're supposed to work. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:07 AM WOM! Don't remember hearing of that one but I like it! Memory you could never read - as some over here may say - about as much use as a chocolate fire guard. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:35 AM When one of the more recent Win versions was new, the most popular cartoon posted at Microsoft, and at many places doing business with them, was a simple "button" with caption "OH SHIT!" The label on the button was the "flag" logo and the word "STRAT" Sort of like wringing out the "backup" program and forgetting to test the "restore." John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:19 AM This "Write Only Memory" device - it sounds like an interesting concept. Perhaps somebody should demonstrate it to Bill Gates and store his memory for posterity. They could hit him about the head with it whilst repeating the traditional Microsoft Mantra "Abort.... Retry.... Fail..." until his system reboots. Just a thought to lighten the day... Quack! GtD. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:12 AM Now that we have DVDs and very high capacity hard drives, the sensible backup route would seem to be Drive Imaging. I am currently looking at a 15 day evaluation trial of Acronis True Image (current BLICKY), which has had a couple of good write-ups which reckon it is currently more reliable or versatile than the opposition. I've not had time to do much playing about with it yet, but it does seem user friendly. It runs initially via Windows, but if your hard drive is trashed you can restore things via it's own CD-Booting disc. It's big claim is that it makes an image of Everything on the hard drive at the moment you run the programme, including all the files belonging to the Windows Operating System which standard backup programmes tell you they cannot back-up because a programme is running. You can back up a complete hard drive or any partitions individually. You can then save the resulting image file on a different partition (or external drive), or it will automatically split it into chunks and burn it directly onto a series of CDs or to DVD. Once you have a full image, you can then do incremental images which add recent changes to the backup set you have already made. Once you have the image this one lets you "Mount" it as a "virtual" drive, so you can browse through it using a standard file manager and copy or retrieve individual files as if they were on a standard (read only) drive. I'll report back when I have had a better chance to try it out. Quack! Geoff the Duck. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 24 Feb 05 - 06:47 PM SRS - The crumbled external drive was very much unexpected, and was apparently what the reliability guys call an "early failure." The thing that was really surprising is that "modern" machines have pretty good diagnostics built in - or installed as software "managers" - and I got no warning. The first symptom was a bunch of files that just wouldn't copy back from the drive. I managed to reformat, but the switch from FAT32 to NTFS defaulted to about 120GB instead of the original 160GB. (It's a cluster size default, and I didn't bother to partition.) About two days later the drive started making noises, and within a couple of hours it just quit completely. Probably scraped enough loose media off the platters to lock the heads(?). When my "art collection" and "her" genealogical files (lots of large photo scans) outgrew the small CD rack beside the machine, I made myself a 10-drawer "Art cabinet" that will hold about 140 CDs per drawer - with 3 larger drawers in the base for a few prints; but I'm about to the point of having to throw old backup CDs away to make room for the fresh ones. Backups do often include a lot of "redundancy" so a full set of every "working" file I've got in archives probably would fit on about 100 CDs; but there's all that sorting that would have to be done to get a "one copy of each file" set. One of the reasons for getting the drive that failed was to have room to make mass file copies from backup CDs to consolidate archives. Theoretically, if you copy the same file, you'll overwrite and automatically eliminate some of the duplication, but only if the file names are exactly the same and the folder layout is the same. Of course, if you overwrite, you're only saving the last copy you copied back to the disk. That's one of the problems with CD data backups - because the CD folder name rules are different than hard drive rules, so the burner program renames stuff, often truncating the name for the same file differently every time you burn a new backup that includes the file. Data DVDs have the same problem with filenames, and I've not found them useful because it's an unworkable (extremely slow) process getting a few data files back from them. Like tape, you need enough free HD space to restore entire backups so that you can get the specific individual files from the HD. Of course with tape, if you make a new sort, you can re-use the tape for the "reorganized" backup. With CDs/DVDs you just get a lot of coasters and Xmas reflectors. Windows supposedly has a decent "backup" utility, that would let you put stuff on CDs you could hide in the basement; but some highly publicized incidents where they gave very specific instructions about how to back up stuff when migrating to new versions leave me a little dubious. In one such incident they admitted that they'd thoroughly tested the backup instructions and they worked perfectly - but nobody at Mickey's place ever checked whether you could restore anything from the backups. In this case you couldn't. One of the major storage equipment makers ran an ad about 20 years ago for "the perfect backup device." They called it the "WOM" - for "Write-Only Memory." The ad claimed "you can send everything you've got to it, and it'll never get full." They reported that they got something like 20,000 inquiries from people wanting to order it, several of whom came back and requested they be put on the list to be notified when it was available - after they were told it didn't really exist. (It was an April 1 issue of the magazine where it ran, and the picture in the ad was obviously a chunk of 2x4, painted black, with the "input-only" cable tied in a bow to an eye-bolt in one end.) Lots of people make backups that resemble that device. John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Feb 05 - 04:19 PM I'm thinking about where my backup drive is going to live (read: hide) when it isn't in use. And now it sounds like you're telling me I need a backup for my backup! Oy! SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 24 Feb 05 - 08:26 AM SRS - It seems to be the season for hard drive stuff. I just received a replacement (under warrenty) for a 160GB external that went toes up. I lost essentially everything on the drive, but fortunately there was only one file that wasn't replicated somewhere else in backups. (Somewhere in about 80 CDs?????: but I have indexes.) The odd thing was that the drive kept accepting writes to the drive, and everything looked okay until I tried to copy back to another drive. Then about 60% of the stuff was "corrupted," and a lot of stuff that looked good was sort of questionable. My suspicion is a head crash, probably due to mishandling with the forklift at the retail place. Once it went, you could watch things crumble - rapidly progressive. While it was still claiming all the stuff was there, I ran a DOS "DIR H:\*.*/S>filelist.txt," and it worked perfectly, so I know exactly what went down. (360,503 Files - 79,989,555,702 bytes, listed in a Word .doc 8,384 pages long.) The good news is that recently my AV system scan only has to check about 480,000 files, so it goes a lot quicker. Not too long ago it was running just over 1,040,000 on 3 drives ... But I've cleaned things up since then as well ... John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:31 AM Silly me, posting about upgrading that computer. The very next day three hoodlums kicked in my side door and stole both computers and sundry other appliances. (A neighbor saw it happen, got the vehicle license, but they haven't been caught, for whatever reasons.) My external hard drive (the backup of my computer) went out the door at the same time. I'm now using XP pro, and the only update I had to do was to update from the XP Home version on the new computer I picked up on Monday. Nice to have a new one, but I'm always going to regret the many years worth of material lost in the old one. I have some stuff on disks, but not nearly as much as I should have. Lost hard drive, indeed! SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:39 PM Next payday I'll head over to the campus computer store and take advantage of one of the few perks that university employees enjoy: inexpensive software. I'll pick up the upgrade for Win XP Pro ($21) and the MS Office Suite ($21). There was another one I wanted that is $7, but I can't remember which it is now. Anyway. . . I've seen talk here at Mudcat about difficulties when upgrading to XP from Win2000 Pro. (The computer store only offers the new OS program as an "upgrade," if that makes any difference.) Any thoughts on it? I use an HP Pavilion 9870. It could use some more memory, but it runs fine and has lots of bells and whistles. I'll clean everything up, do my scans, run a backup in Ghost. Any thoughts on approaching this upgrade? Cautionary tales? SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:24 AM Just remembered what the I? in WIMP stood for - Window Icon Mouse Pointer..... And the Amiga did it better than Microsloth ever has. Things sch as "shortcuts" on the Workbench - with Windows since 3.1 every programme sticks one there without you asking and thay jst clutter your screen without doing anything useful. (Actually that was the good point about Win3.1 - it kept your stuff in user defined boxes so you could find them). The Amiga, on the other hand allowed you to locate anything - a programe, a single document or a drawer containing data/programmes etc. - and temporarily "leave it out" on thw workbench. When you no longer needed it available, you just clicked on a "Put Away" menu item and the item goes back to the drawer it lives in. Don't know about the Mackintosh - I've never had much contact with them other than for keeping the rain off... Quack! GtD |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 15 Feb 05 - 07:08 PM The clever special DOS I was referring to earlier may nave been the C64 rather than the Amiga. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 15 Feb 05 - 06:56 PM Geoff, I use SUSE 9.2. I can't be sure but I think comments here in some thread or other counted amongst the reasons for me going that way. I apologise that I can't be more specific than that but I honestly can not remember. All I can say is that I'm happy with the product. I do have a version of Mandrake 8.1 kicking around here somewhere. My objection to that concerned some hardware problems and harddrake (their hardware support thing). None of the web links they were suppose to support I wanted (or maybe even a lookup) worked and I was less than impressed. That said, if you have a free copy and I'm understanding you correctly, I'd say give it a whirl and see how you get on with it in your "experiment". The "feel" you get for running apps will really come down to KDE or other window manager such as gnome anyway. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:46 PM Windows through WinMe were pretty much "extensions" of DOS. Win98 was about the first one that really introduced the "protection layer" to keep programs from having direct disk access, but backward compatibility problems required it to allow easy overide so that old programs would still run (mostly). NT3, and to some extent NT4, were intended to be "server grade" with all the protections built in, but they turned out to be pretty "doggy" for user machines. Win2K (user classes) was an attempt to apply NT4 concepts, but actually make them work for ordinary users. It's not bad, but there's still a big gap between what appears to the typical user and the "special kits" you have to open for administration. You sort of have to learn to wear two different hats to really run it and to control it. WinXP was sort of a "start from zero" thing. They looked at all the legacy stuff, but where necessary some of it was removed, and quite a lot of new things added. You can choose "Classic View" to make it look like it's similar to the "old 'uns" but it really isn't. If you try to run with inadequate hardware, or try to use a lot of non-compliant "legacy" programs it can look pretty clunky; but if you run it on an "XP Class" machine and use qualified/compliant programs, it's by far the best user OS they've come up with. They think that XP Server is pretty good too, but I don't have any real need to know whether that's really true - for now. I suspect that, when run on appropriate hardware and "by the rules" it's probably "better" than previous Win/NT server OSs, but that's not a choice I need to make. The "next generation" Longhorn was promised 2 or 3 years ago, and is now scheduled for 2 or 3 years from now. What I've seen is sort of scary, but maybe we'll get lucky and the vaporware will vaporize before it gets here... John |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 15 Feb 05 - 05:16 PM On the Amiga they were always "Volumes". RAID stands for Redundant Array (of) Inexpensive Discs - and essentially is about ensuring that all information is stored in more than one location, so when one disc blows up you are not reliant on it - the data is still there. Creating a partition then "hiding" it was partially successful, but I have decided it isn't quite what I need. I'll wait until I can organise Drive Imaging and then back-up everything. Once I've done that, I can start to work on a fresh clean install of the stuff I actually want on the (windows) computer. I can also sort out the Linux innstallation. Jon - which "flavour" do you use, and is one to try? I've just picked up a magazine which has Mandrake 10.1 on its cover disc. Any comments? Quack! GtD. |
|
Subject: RE: Tech: lost hard drive ? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 15 Feb 05 - 04:57 PM Thanks for the info John. I never knew Windows had that capability. Even with this new knowledge, I must admit to being surprised at Win 98. My wild guess with such a capability would have followed the NT route (not that I've ever used that but I believe Win2K pro I have is a "descendant"). I've never had any dealings with Raid - it's a good thing but I've never had the need for my own home usage. |
| Share Thread: |
