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In the UK......? (thread title change complaint)
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:56 AM Five months old now, and all about one man's desire to impose his will on all others, including the site owners. And he accuses Joe and the Clones of being too controlling...SHEEESH! If only we could find a way to hook him up to the National Grid, we could solve all our energy problems for years to come. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: GUEST Date: 27 Dec 05 - 02:30 PM In the meantime the said thread will be closed awaiting the democratic process. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: GUEST Date: 27 Dec 05 - 01:06 PM OK, Shambles, in order not to "impose" a philosophy on anyone, I propose that we adopt a policy that no thread will have its title changed without first posting a proposal that the title be changed, and then allow six months for everyone to express thier opinion about whether it should be changed or not, and to suggest other possible titles, and then put it to a vote--but first we'll have to allow six months to debate about what the voting procedure should be--should we divid up into parties and allow proportional representation, or should we adopt a winner-take-all procedure; and who should be allowed to vote, and how we're going to make sure nobody votes twice, and whether the method is foolproof or not, and another six months to appoint a committee to count the votes, and another six months to hold hearings on all the complaints about how the votes were counted unfairly--but first I'd like to open debate on whether this proposal is an ironic one or not. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 26 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM I have to first question why the philosophy of someone who can't even use a regular name should be imposed on contributors who are prepared to be known and stand by their philosophy? If something is worth doing - it is perhaps worth doing properly and without any secrecy, imposed judgement and needless division? The DT is serviced by the Forum in the way I suggested but remains a separate entity. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 24 Dec 05 - 08:03 PM Listen very carefully I shall say zis only wunce (phoney French accent). If someone is asking about a particular song, or adding a lyric, a number of blue clickies will usually appear, above the list of posters, linking to pertinent threads. The only reason for some of these appearing is the fact that Joe, or a clone has kindly altered the title to make that happen. As for the idea of our forum moderators being tasked with the job of extracting, and moving, data to another part of the site, has it occurred to you that these people have a life beyond Mudcat which requires their attention. I would suggest that very few people have the spare time to take on this extra work. Perhaps you would be willing to volunteer your services in this matter, as it is apparent that you have more time for posting than most here. At least it would cut down on the high percentage of complaints on these threads. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 24 Dec 05 - 05:43 PM And a Merry Christmas to you, Shambles. May we keep some perspective on what is truly important in life. Innocent civilians are being blown up every day, soldiers are fighting in an unjust war and thousands of people starve to death daily. There are worse things than a title change.. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: John MacKenzie Date: 24 Dec 05 - 05:32 PM Gotcha!! |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Peace Date: 24 Dec 05 - 05:02 PM If I gave you my suggestion, Shambles, it would rightfully be edited out by a clone. FYI. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 24 Dec 05 - 04:34 PM My philosophy is that we're not just answering questions here. We're building the world's largest database of useful information about folk music (loosely defined), including lyrics, tunes, information about recordings, links to other useful sites, etc. Information posted here is not only for the benefit of the people who ask for it, but for unknown hundreds or thousands of people who might search for that information in the future. Therefore, the information needs to be organised in a way that makes it easy to find. I have to first question why the philosophy of someone who can't even use a regular name should be imposed on contributors who are prepared to be known and stand by their philosophy? This philosophy is not a unworthy one and is perhaps one that a name could be put to? I only question if it is one that really fits with Max's historical model of what this public discussion forum should be or if it is a philosophy that is at odds with his public statements on this? There is some confusion between The Mudcat proper ie Max's website and the part that he has given over for the public's contributions - The Discussion Forum. Can I suggest that the answer is to use The Mudcat proper to build a database and to extract from the discussion forum the information freely provided by the public and where this information can be organised eleswhere on the site - as your philosophy requires? Hopefully always correctly crediting (and linking) the source of this information? This would leave all of our forum free for all of our contributions to remain unchanged, unedited and uncensored - just as they were posted.........Would this be the best solution? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: GUEST,One of the JoeClones Date: 24 Dec 05 - 04:07 PM Changing thread titles is a time-honoured tradition in the Music section of the forum, and I have never heard of anyone complaining about it. It happens because people, mainly newcomers who don't know any better, often start threads like— Help! I'm looking for song. or looking for song or Lyr Req: Need a Song or want to find a song to name a few examples that we haven't got around to changing yet—but I fully intend to do it, as time permits. The people who start this kind of music thread haven't a clue what kind of information they should put in a thread title, or why it matters. But they ALL—without exception that I know of—understand once it is explained to them, and then they often apologise for their ignorance and thank us for helping them. People who start BS threads are different. My philosophy is that we're not just answering questions here. We're building the world's largest database of useful information about folk music (loosely defined), including lyrics, tunes, information about recordings, links to other useful sites, etc. Information posted here is not only for the benefit of the people who ask for it, but for unknown hundreds or thousands of people who might search for that information in the future. Therefore, the information needs to be organised in a way that makes it easy to find. One of the ways people find information is by filtering thread titles, so it's important for thread titles to contain a full song title, or at least some important key words about whatever the topic is. I have probably changed hundreds of titles of music threads, and no one ever complained. I once naively assumed the authors would appreciate it if I occasionally changed a BS thread title as well, but I learned better. Now I never change BS threads, and haven't for a long time. Not that I think there would be anything wrong with changing them. I just can't be bothered to do it, given that it is a thankless task. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 24 Dec 05 - 04:52 AM If those with time on their hands and nothing to do but selectivly edit my contributions in various ways and interfere and pass judgements on matters that are none of their concern - - - there would be nothing for me - or anyone else to spend their precious time complaining about. Roll on that day! And roll on the day that those with time on their hand and nothing to do and who repeatly post in support of those few who do the interfering and who post only to pass judgement (or worse) upon the victims of this intererence - can find something more constructive to do with their time. Merry Christmas Jerry |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 23 Dec 05 - 03:02 PM "with time on their hands and nothing better to do." Man, that is as perfect a commentary on your complaints, Shambles as I've ever heard... Jerry |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Peace Date: 23 Dec 05 - 03:00 PM Shambles, most people have the decency to wank in private. Please join them in that custom. (My apologies to the pedants on the thread. I don't really understand the transitivity of the infinitive "to wank".) |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:54 PM he doesn't need your permission, nor your complience - and it is obviously an addition/reply rather an insertion. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:51 PM Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing From: The Shambles - PM Date: 23 Dec 05 - 06:24 AM You may have missed this editing comment as it was inserted into my post and did not refresh this thread. Subject: RE: Law prevents carol singing. (England) From: The Shambles - PM Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:07 AM Can who ever inserted 'England' to this thread's title please remove it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I won't bother finding out who made the title change, but I can see no good reason for the change to have been made - so I changed it back. I would expect to see a location added to titles of threads about concerts or tours, not for every damn thing. -Joe Offer- [the above editing comment was in small brown writing and still being inserted into my post without my permission and against my wishes]
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 23 Dec 05 - 09:04 AM Wishing you all a Merry Christmas. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: John MacKenzie Date: 23 Dec 05 - 08:46 AM Another sly underhand, and self serving revival of an old thread by Roger. "Subject: BS: Wanker's Register From: The Shambles - PM Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:15 AM I see we have a Lurker's Register so why not a Wanker's Register for self-confessed wankers? I think that may have 'bashed the Bishop' myself once when I was younger - but I did not inhale................." The self confessed wanker. G. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 23 Dec 05 - 08:31 AM Wishing you all a Merry Christmas. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 30 Aug 05 - 04:21 AM But Roger doesn't like where I put my answers, so he thinks that means it's wrong. Joe Offer I am not sure there a right or wrong here - just different - if plainly unequal views. But where I may really like you to put such answers may prove to be more difficult than where I have politely and formally requested you place them in future. However - I have politely and formally requested that you do not insert them in my posts but contribute to and refresh the threads on equal terms as everyone else - for the reasons given and I hope that you will honour this request. But it was a formal request - made in moderate language and as khandu said earlier in this thread: Simple decency goes a long way. Most importantly when you do show simple decency - it is setting an example that usually tends to be appreciated and reciprocated. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Aug 05 - 06:00 PM Which means, in short, that Roger got an answer that did not please him. That's all. Posting answers under questions works for me, but Roger does not like it. Note that these questions have to do with Mudcat editorial policy, so posting the answer as an editorial comment seems perfectly appropriate. Personal opinions are another matter, but Roger is not requesting my personal opinion. What he defines as my personal opinion is another matter. But Roger doesn't like where I put my answers, so he thinks that means it's wrong. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 29 Aug 05 - 05:13 PM For example ---- I have received a answer to my polite request - that editing comments are not in future inserted into my posts without my permission - in the the form of the following editing comment inserted into my post - without my permission. Aparently because it is easier for our volunteer posters to do this than post conventionally - even when a poster has specifically requested it not to be done to their posts. Request denied. If you ask a question about editorial policy or actions, go back to your question the next day or so and look for an answer - it will be in brown, so you can easily see it. If it's not worth looking for an answer where I'm going to put it, don't bother asking the question in the first place. It's much easier for me to give a clear answer if I put it right below the question. And you DO want clear answers, don't you? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:46 PM Yes. I don't appear to be getting that now - do I? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: MMario Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:40 PM I thought you wanted equal treatment? *I* am formaly requesting any posts by Shambles dealing with editing or thread closure or title changes or any other aspect of the running of this fourm be immediately deleted. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:33 PM I would like to formally request that no more editorial comments are inserted or imposed (without my permission) into my posts. As the practice of inserting these comments into existing posts - does not refresh the thread and signal a response - other than running back over all the previous posts - there is no way that I or anyone else - can tell if any question asked in a thread - has been answered using this practice. I would like to formally request that any response to any question asked publicly by me in a thread - is answered in that thread by a conventional post that does refresh the thread. And that any response made to any publicly expressed view of mine or any comment made about any view of mine publicly expressed in a thread - is made in a conventional posting that does refresh the thread. Thank you.
It's much easier for me to give a clear answer if I put it right below the question. And you DO want clear answers, don't you? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: jacqui.c Date: 29 Aug 05 - 08:08 AM I think he's just bonkers Wolfgang. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:16 AM It's the way you tell em - Wolfgang... |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: Wolfgang Date: 29 Aug 05 - 07:04 AM El Greko, well, after thinking very hard about possible rational reasons for Shambles behaviour I came up with three possibilities: (1) he does it for our entertainement (funny relief) (2) he does a social psychology experiment (3) he tries to get on everybody's nerves until there'll be a grassroots movement to make the forum according to all his wishes for that still seems less worse than his constant posts. I see not much support for any of these theories. who NOW informs us that he is responsible for ALL such moves (Shambles) You lie, Shambles, when using the word 'we'. I for one have been informed long before that post just by reading some threads. So please, if you think that you understand something or read something for the first time, use the word 'I' or 'me' when you feel the need to inform others about your most recent progress. Don't assume all others grasp with the same speed. (c&p your favourite quote about 'assumption') Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 29 Aug 05 - 05:50 AM "volunteer fellow posters can now be asked to make a choice – between one role - or the other"... Good one, Sham. Whe you were at work did you stop being a son, a father, a husband, a friend, a hobbyist? Were you then "one thing or the other"? Or were you an integrated person that can be all of those things at the same time? That only raised a smile - must do better to keep the Clown Crown. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:50 AM The following editing comment was inseted into a existing post (in a 'fancy Dan' little box') and did not refresh this thread. That's why I answer in COLOR, Roger - so people can see that there was a question raised and an official answer given. Joe Offer Many personal views and judgements continue to be expressed in editing comments - that are inserted into posts and do not refresh the thread - and many claims to be speaking for what is editing policy – continue to be expressed alongside personal views and judgements – in conventional posts. This practice is confusing and hardly likely to be generally seen as impartial. Perhaps our volunteer fellow posters can now be asked to make a choice – between one role - or the other? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 29 Aug 05 - 04:36 AM See also the following: Closing threads Where you will – (or should be able to) see the following editing comment inserted into an existing post there. Request denied, Shambles. We don't close for technical reasons, so this is not a technical thread. That's why I moved it to the "BS" section. I moved it - the mover is not anonymous. -Joe Offer, who is responsible for ALL thread moves- This was made to my request that that this thread - for which I had chosen a TECH prefix – be taken out of the BS section – where apparently Joe Offer – who NOW informs us that he is responsible for ALL such moves – had moved it……… |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 07:43 PM It behoves me to blow my own horn. Devilish thing to do, but that last post was 666 after all |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 07:38 PM Stop it, Roger - you're killing me... |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: wysiwyg Date: 28 Aug 05 - 05:32 PM Wrong again, Roger. Again and again. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 03:47 PM People DO read the editorial comments, Roger. Why do you assume they don't? Well sad old buggers like us may look back and read the these editing comments but anyone following the thread less avidly than us - may not even know that these editing words of wisdom (usually from Joe Offer) - have been inserted into existing posts. For they may quite sensibly assume that if the thread has not been refreshed (since their last visit) that there are no more fresh comments (or replies) posted to the thread. But as I may have said before - assumption is the mother of all cock-ups. Most of us ordinary posters seem to be able to copy what we may be replying to when we post. But this of course will refresh the thread - something that - for some reason - some of our volunteer fellow posters do not seem to wish to do........
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: wysiwyg Date: 28 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM People DO read the editorial comments, Roger. Why do you assume they don't? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 03:27 PM You may have missed the following - for it was inserted into an existing post as an editing comment - so as not to refresh this thead. In fact if you have missed this one and the many others - so what! There seems little point in Joe Offer inserting these brown comments if no poster is going to ever read them - unless I later place them in a post that does refresh the post...... Hmmm. Again I'm not sure what I'm supposed to apologize for. Maybe I should apologize to the Forum for failing to do a better job of deleting those duplications. Of course, if you eliminated the duplications, that would leave Shambles with about three posts. -Joe Offer- Sorry seems to be the hardest word |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 02:14 PM SO Wolfgang, you reckon Rog The Sham has been funnying with us all this time, simply wanting to raise some laughs? God, that would be such a relief! I'll go with that. His repetition of the restaurant joke for the 11th (yes, 11th!) time seems to support your "repetition as a transport of humour" statement on the other thread. Nice one, Shambles! Sorry it took me so long to see that your whole set of statements and postings were meant to be a joke - you are indeed the Master! We are not worthy... |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Wolfgang Date: 28 Aug 05 - 10:21 AM I was in a circus, some months ago, and there was this clown. He was so great. He acted completely straight on the surface but in such a funny way that everybody laughed about him. The pinnacle was when he stood in the middle of the circus and cried: Nobody is taking me serious. We nearly wetted ourselves in that moment. He had that genius of acting that by just merely repeating what he had done in the last seconds he could elicit a roar of laughter. Nothing to do with this thread, I know, I just told you that because I was getting slowly tired of the turd theme. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 09:56 AM Keep digging - want a shovel? Shovels are no use for digging - but I can always use the dirty knife for that. Oops! I have mentioned the dirty knife now now...... The shovel may be useful for shovelling out all of these turds. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 09:51 AM The cook comes in; he is very big and carries a meat cleaver. Cook (shouting) You bastards! You vicious, heartless bastards! Look what you've done to him! He's worked his fingers to the bone to make this place what it is, and you come in with your petty feeble quibbling and you grind him into the dirt, this fine, honourable man, whose boots you are not worthy to kiss. Oh... it makes me mad... mad! (slams cleaver into the table) Good job I didn't mention the dirty knife For those with a sense of humour - the full Monty Python sketch can be found here. http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode03.htm#5 |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 06:42 AM Oh - and the fact that you use someone else's behaviour in an attempt to excuse your own, simply makes you a spiteful troll... Keep digging - want a shovel? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 06:40 AM So, by your own admission - and irrespective of how anyone else behaves - you choose to make such offensive remarks to all fellow posters! Nice one Shambles, I have never seen a more open admission by a troll, that he IS a troll... Let that be on record. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 05:28 AM Do you actually appreciate how offensive such a lie and such a megalomaniacal challenge is to the ordinary fellow posters of this forum? As an ordinary fellow poster - I do know only too well how offensive these can be. For I am sure you mean like the following - made emphatically to our forum for the second time - for whch no apology to me or our forum has yet been made. Just click on his name in any message he's posted, and you will receive a complete collection of everything Shambles has said on Mudcat. And not one word of it has been deleted, except for some of his more glaring duplications. Joe Offer
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 05:22 AM Learn some new jokes, Rog :-) Use the dictionary again (see below) |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 05:17 AM Good job I didn't say anything about the dirty knife Shambles, go whine somewhere else, or maybe we should start threads about you and the sheep or something. But Shambles believes in this sort of thing, so I think that maybe this would be a good opportunity to smear his reputation. Shambles, I'm sick of you and your shit. Joe Offer Ah, Shambles - we make an exception for you, since you seem to think it's a good thing to have personal attacks. We want to keep you happy, after all. Your whining is so annoying. Joe Offer
Would you care to tell the people when and in what context I posted these messages? Would you care to tell the people how often you have copy-pasted these same quotes? You complain about my posting these brown editorial comments to reply to your challenges. Your challenges always have to do with editorial actions and policy, so it certainly seems that an editorial comment would be an appropriate response. Generally, what I post in these brown comments is a statement of fact or policy - usually a direct answer to a question or issue raised in that particular message. When I express personal opinion such as saying that I'm sick of your whining, I put that in an ordinary message - but it's actually quite rare that I say such things, since there's no need. I know that if I say it once, you'll copy-paste it a dozen times. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: George Papavgeris Date: 28 Aug 05 - 04:58 AM ...and before an ace pedant picks on my HTML: Rog, well done again - this tit-for-tat really adds to your credibility! Especially the "challenge"/caution to "Joe Offer and anonymous volunteer fellow posters" (a term that is so confusing in and of itself, it is apt that you should be using it). Then there is the blatant lie about "views inivited to our forum by Max the site's owner, when nowhere has Max invited those views - and don't use the "invitation to post what we like" as your excuse, that would be word-twisting to serve your purposes. So, another LIE it is... Do you actually appreciate how offensive such a lie and such a megalomaniacal challenge is to the ordinary fellow posters of this forum? I have called you no names in this post, but please do me a favour: open the dictionary, find the most offensive names and adjectives in it, and consider yourself called those, by me. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Aug 05 - 02:11 AM And how will any of this help hamsters? How? |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain From: The Shambles Date: 28 Aug 05 - 02:09 AM You may have missed the follow - for this was inserted into an existing post by fellow poster - Joe Offer as an editing comment and did not refresh this thread. Well, Shambles, I guess I have to say that the answer to your request, as before, is "no." The use of a prefix IS optional for the thread originator. If a prefix or additional information is needed for clarity, it will be added by a volunteer, so not to worry. It's one of the many wonderful services provided to you by your friendly Mudcat volunteers. You are hereby informed, so there's no need to be startled next time you witness this wonderful, generous, selfless act of service. Next time you create a thread, remember the above statement. Since nobody else seems to care, there's no reason to put it on the thread creation screen. Most people just don't care to see all that verbiage. You, on the other hand, are obsessed with verbiage. Sorry, but we have no interest in catering to your obsessions. Most people who have a question simply ask, and don't require us to post caveats about every possible thing that might cause them displeasure. But for your benefit, here goes :Personal Caution to Shambles: There are some aspects of Mudcat and its management which may cause you occasional, mild displeasure. Some decisions made at Mudcat may not meet your personal specifications. Use Mudcat at your own risk! There, I think that covers everything. If you like, you can print this warning up on a little red card and carry it around in your pocket. Better safe than sorry, you know. -Joe Offer- Before anyones junps in - I had already made the same request in a personal message to the Mudcat's owner Max. I am still awiting an answer. Warnings from one poster to their fellow posters - should perhaps been seen in that light? :Personal Caution to Joe Offer and anonymous volunteer fellow posters: There are some aspects of the contributions of your fellow posters - invited to our forum - by Max the site's owner - which may cause you occasional, mild displeasure. Some views inivited to our forum by Max the site's owner - may not meet your personal specifications. Accept that you have no control over the views and words of your fellow posters and allow our forum to continue to be shaped by these contribution and not by your imposed personal specifications.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Aug 05 - 02:09 AM Yeah. Besides...Shatner is more fun. Only marginally more for some, mind you...but still, I think it's worth keeping in mind. Joe, I think you should mail that little yellow warning notice to Roger as a laminated card, and he can stick it on his computer monitor, so as to be aware at all times of the risk he is taking whenever he logs on here. |
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Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complaint) From: Cluin Date: 28 Aug 05 - 01:58 AM I would like to request a new title for THIS thread... Big waste of effing time! |
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