'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:45 PM

My first instinct is to say that if you're an open session, you should be open to everyone. If you want to be exclusive, then you should start your own group or invitation-only session. The trouble is, I think you lose a lot if you're totally unrestrictive.
Our song circle in Sacramento is open to all, and we make an effort to keep even those who are awful singers. The trouble is, we've lost some of the best musicians from our group because they don't feel challenged. We have fun, but sometimes it seems we can go a long time between those moments when the music is sublime. It's not all that bad - later in the evening, only the die-hards are left, and the music gets good. Still, the situation we have no is not totally satisfying.
What I think I'm going to try is a "workshop" at my home once a month. I'm going to keep it an open session, but I'm going to steal an idea from the Washington DC people and ask people to come prepared to lead two or three songs they've chosen in advance. I may restrict this to songs that the regular song circle doesn't know or doesn't do well. That way, we'll keep our open cicicle, but have a resource for bringing new material into the circle.
While I really like to have quality music, I think it's important for us all to encourage music-making by non-musicians or fledgling musicians. Music isn't just for those who are good enough to get recording contracts. On the other hand, those who have real talent have every right to be able to find sewssions that will allow them to exercise those talents.
I suppose "jam sessions" refers to instruments, not singing - but my instrument is my voice. I'm struggling to play guitar, harmonica, and autoharp - but I'm not ready to use those instruments in anything other than our "slow jam."
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:44 PM

it is my considered opinion that players who are very good, or have a narrow focus may well want to have sessions where they do it 'their' way...but those sessions/sings should NOT be public...any event which is advertised, or presumed to be 'open' should be tolerant...yep, I know this is NOT always easy..I have been to events where the dynamics were going great..fine music, good rapport...until some total klutz sits down and breaks the mood with bad timing, poor choice of transition, and just plain weak musicianship..usually, fols are polite...but soon someone discovers they need to find the john, get a drink..etc..and the group deteriorates...there is no easy solution..poor to average players need some sort of example and guidance in order to improve, but we all know a few who NEVER seem to improve..or even be aware of the effect they have..

still, I will almost always vote for tolerance, forebearance, and help when at all possible..

(me..I am right in the middle ..average singer and player, but, I think, one who KNOWS when to play and when to shut up and listen!)

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:21 PM

...Hell, I know my friends won't mistake me for a church lady...But I rarely protest any bullshit because I am so used to accepting people at face value as a psychotherapist! And I am certainly no angel in the human being department!

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:21 PM

Great thread. I dislike elite sessions, as I feel I don't fit in. Strange isn't it. I am primarily a singer of songs and rhythm player. I am incredibly well received by audiences wherever I play, but when I get among people with an elitist attitude, I don't feel comfortable playing. I guess, for me, I enjoy a session where the object is the joy one receives when they interpret a song or tune and the audience enjoys it and the musicians enjoyed playing it. I have been in sessions where it seemed the object was to show off ones ability and how superior one is to others. I usually avoid these like the plague. I am just not good enough for this crowd.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Chet W.
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:16 PM

Two posts came in while I was writing. You're probably right Tony about a need for each kind of session. Unfortunately in Columbia there are not a lot of regular sessions. Harpgirl, I feel your pain. We seem to agree on the issue. I hate for it to get to the point where some people have to leave on principle. Makes us look like a Baptist Church.

Chet

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:16 PM

chet...as to the concept of elite jam sessions, sure we should have them. If they are to be elite they should be identified as such so no one is hurt, arbitraily excluded or humiliated...harp

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:12 PM

Harpgirl.

You are completlely right. The only option open to anyone in an informal session, when they don't like something, is to remove themself.

If the ones that don't like things are not prepared to leave then they should just get on with it and with, whoever is prepared to play with them.

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Chet W.
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:09 PM

I think it's supposed to be open. I was really wondering more about your opinions on the concept. I understand and support etiquette at these things, always have. But I don't like to be exclusive, I don't like to get into anyone else's personal realm, if it really is theirs, and I don't enjoy music that has to maintain it's purity at the cost of others' learning, or others' creativity for that matter. Peter, I think what you say is very relevant. I wouldn't have thought of it that way, but it does make a lot of sense. I guess people should have their little plots of purity to guard, but in art forms that are all about the oral tradition, I think it's not quite right to fail to make people of lesser ability welcome. That's certainly the way I learned; I'll never forget standing, mandolin in hand, with large groups of people at the Fiddler's Grove festival and playing Over the Waterfall for what seemed like an hour. By four or five times around I had it, and it was easier on the next tune. I also remember all-night sessions with such legends as Tommy Jarrell and Ralph Blizzard among many others, and nobody every saying anything about lesser musicians like myself even moving to the edge of the group. I really don't mean to put this particular session down; I like the people and the proprietors are extremely hospitable. If you're ever in Columbia, SC, on a Sunday evening, look up the Publick House on Devine Street. It's all Irish, and is generally lots of fun.

Chet

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 12:58 PM

oh gawd, Chet you have just brought up the issue about which I have been agonizing for the last forty eight hours. In our jam session one of the hosts doesn't like some of the players and doesn't like some of the playing of some of the the participants. We have been playing this jam for more than five years I might add.

The latest attempt to exclude some people was that they made up a rule that there would be an outside circle and an inside circle. No clue as to who should be where except I guess first come first serve, which doesn't address the covert issues at all.

I argued with one of the hosts before this rule was imposed again this last week. Nevertheless, they tried to impose it and I then decided to leave the session and I did with the position that we include everyone who wants to play and be nice to them or agree on an overt set of rules which would address varying levels of ability, instruments, and personal enmity.

My feeling is that above all, being nice to other human beings is important, regardless of their ability level, instrument or personality and if rules are to be imposed they must be fairly and overty imposed.

I was so hurt and disappointed by my close friend's willingess to opt for power over listening and addressing my feelings that I left. I have written a letter requesting that they do things more fairly. If not I will not go back. I think I must stand by my convictions about how to treat people. What do you think?...harp

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Tony Burns
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 12:57 PM

At our folk club we run a monthly session where we encourage the participation of the inexperienced. We do this by making it very clear that we do not want an audience. At the session each person is encouraged but not pressured, in turn, to do a number and ask others to join in or not. It works well and we have seen some people evolve from tentative participants when all are invited to join in to quite confident performers. We have had the odd 'good' player show up and leave because they don't like the beginners. They are likely the ones that go out and start elite sessions.

Back to the original question, "Elite jam sessions? Is it OK?". Yes. There's room for all kinds of sessions and probably a need for each.

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 12:28 PM

This is probably irrelevant, but after a lot of years in the arts, I have finally figured out a strange Catch-22, which is that many performers (in theatre or whatever) are incredibly shy and introverted, until they get welcomed or settled, and then they can open up and shine. The catch is that when these people become part of the community, they either forget what it was like when they first started, or, more likely, because they have always been introverts, they have never developed the kind of "inviting in" behaviour that a lot of extroverts take for granted. I think introverts also tend to want to have a situation stable, and when they get into such a situation, they find having new people threatening -- even though the new people may be exactly in the same position that they themselves were in before. I have seen this happen over and over again (not in music, so I can't say anything about that). It is something shy people have to fight against all the time: their lack of ability to help other shy people feel welcome. They are so worried about themselves that they become exclusionary. I speak from experience of both sides, I am bitterly ashamed to say.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Margo
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 12:02 PM

Chet, is the jam supposed to be open? I was at a jam and my friend who had brought me did mention etiquette. But he was referring to not playing, say, a rhythnm instrument if someone was already doing so (or something to that effect). It seemed fair to me. But your description sounds like snobbery to me. I suppose if I was one of the ones who didn't like guitar as rhythm, I might try to come to an agreement about when and where we play.......but not so nastily.

Margarita

Subject: 'Elite' jam sessions? Is it OK?
From: Chet W.
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 11:48 AM

There is a weekly Irish jam session at a local pub, and the folks there are all generally very nice and good players for the most part. They are very focused and exclusive about what they play sometimes, and one of them made a speech one night about the innappropriateness of rythm guitars in Irish music, but we ignored it and kept playing anyway. Last week only a few showed up, and in conversation between songs, a couple of them were telling about other Irish sessions they go to in nearby cities where, they said, if someone doesn't play well enough they will be asked to leave, or at least to stop playing. I thought, and said, Boy I'm glad they didn't do this when we were learning, or we wouldn't be sitting here now. Where would our education (in the sacred oral tradtion) have come from? I can sort of see their point too, though. Any thoughts?

ChetW.