The Confederacy in Country Music (songs)

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 10:00 AM

@ Ron Davies:

I think that '...Ol' Virginny' stands out as an exception and should be treated as such. It was/is a highly controversial tune. "Was he wrong to pander to the happy slave myth...?"

Well, if the discussion moves into the territory of making value judgements about compositional standards (which I think is appropriate and am happy to do here) then I'd venture to say Yes, it was wrong. The happy slave myth was a myth. Willfully engaging in promoting that myth within a for profit industry seems pretty gross to me.

I appreciate your assesment that it is perilously easy to oversimplify this topic. That's becoming more and more clear and I am going to be mindful of that as I go forward. It's so damn interesting though, and I hope I can make some of this stuff stick because I think there's a thread of truth to it.

@ doc.tom

For the purposes of my research right now I'll be looking at the Sentimental Songs/Ballads of the CW as representations of 19th values regarding death, loss and mourning. (*Then a miracle occurs*) After that I will posit that the Lost Cause/New South movement that cropped up during Reconstruction laid the ground work for a musical genre into which those values could be funneled to mourn the loss of the War and traditional southern values. ie: Country Music. I will argue that the trend of Confederate ideations expressed within Country Music can be viewed as a process of mourning in line with the 19th century standards of mourning which were popularly expressed in the songs of the period.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:04 AM

I've spent a lot of time in the south, and I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I have seen so much ignorance, I walk into a book store and all I see is Road&Track, Field & Stream, Guns & Ammo, people who can't discuss anything but the war to resist Northern aggression, and County music.
On the other hand I've known many who are educated, interesting, damn good musicians and just plain nice folks. I have half a dozen close friends in the south.

I guess my point is, people are people no matter where you go.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: doc.tom
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:05 AM

I think you need to define some time-scales here. Are you looking at songs in 2011, or at the evolution of sentiment into song at the creation of 'country' (however you define that), or are you looking at the entire evolution from the time of the Civil War into the modern era?

As background, I found E. Lawrence Abel's "Singing the New Nation: How Music Shaped the Confederacy 1861-1865" (2000, pub.Stackpole Books, Mechanicsburg, PA) to be a very good analysis - it also shows how sentiment gets amplified through popular song. Could be a good starting point!

Good luck with it, whichever way you're doing it.

TomB

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 05:45 AM

Howsabout "The Union Mare & The Confederate Gray"? I thought that weas a pretty good song.
Also 'Two Soldiers"?
Also "Blue-Eyed Boston Boy" ( If that's it's real title?

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: J-boy
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:01 AM

I think(or hope)it's a very small minority in the south who still hold a grudge after one hundred and fifty years. The rebel cause at this point is little more than an affectation or hobby. Most of the country is well beyond caring. But then again, I'm a Mainer.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:47 PM

And of course "Carry Me Back To Old Virginny"--written by a black man, James A. Bland.

Was he wrong to pander to the "happy slave" myth---, since that attitude was the difference between success and failure as a composer?

The version I have of that song says in the introduction that he had been "denied a place as a minstrel because of his color".    How's that for irony?

And he took to "writing songs which were eagerly accepted"   by the same managers who had turned him down as a minstrel .

It is perilously easy to oversimplify this topic.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:34 PM

RE: the grateful slave narrative that was paraded around by groups like the CVU look no further than that ol' standard 'Little Log Cabin on the Lane" by Fiddlin' John Carson

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:28 PM

Interestingly, I'm beginning to understand that what we conceive of as "alignment with the Confederacy" is a really really complex issue which has to do the way the South re-sculpted the meaning of the war after the fact. "the North won the war, but the South one the peace". What that quote refers to is the way that the South was sucsessful in remaking its own image after the fact as the 'beautiful downtrodden losers' of an unjust tyranny instead of slave holders who enjoyed the lifestyle of owning slaves.

This was undertaken conciously as they tried to, effectively, re-write history with, for instance, the much trumpeted notion of the grateful slave who was perfectly happy and content within the plantation system. This was, obviously, total horse-shit, and all anybody ever had to do was listen to some field hollers to dispel the notion.

But the zeal with which the enterprise was undertaken, and is success in recasting the South as the last vestige of traditional, pre-industrial agricultural America is STILL WITH US IN COUNTRY MUSIC, which is music that I love sort of for that reason. It has (or had at least up to the 60's) some whiff of authenticity. I think the most interesting thing that can be looked into within country music is WHERE that sense of authenticity comes from. Was there ever really a Country music? Or did the advent of radio, highly corporatized music publishing, and cultural NEED for catharsis and continuity demand that country music be developed.

The ballad form, which had 600 years of dealing with death and betrayal already codified, was close at hand.

This is highly simplified I know but I think it's an interesting avenue of inquiry.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:12 PM

I would disagree that "I Sang Dixie" mourns either the loss of Southern values or the loss of the Confederacy.

If you listen to it carefully with an open mind (which I hope Mudcatters can do)--especially when sung by Dwight Yoakum-, it seems clear it's about the loss of a man who did identify with the South.   But the protagonist mourns the death of that man--dying far from his home--not any "Lost Cause" regrets.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 10:46 PM

As I said before there are hundreds of songs that talk about the pride of living in the south or how someone can't wait to get below the Mason-Dixon line again to see their folks on the old homestead. That shouldn't be confused with meaning that there is any agreement or alignment with the values of the Confederacy. Those are two very different issues.

One song you might find useful is the Charlie Daniels song "The Souths gonna do it again". It has a line that says "Be proud you're a rebel cause the Souths gonna do it again". But even that might not qualify as I understand the point of your research.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: J-boy
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 10:18 PM

The losing side usually writes the better songs. Just ask the Irish.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:04 PM

@ Maryrrf. Perfect. absolutely perfect.
@wesley. Spent a half hour this afternoon musing on that tune. It will figure prominently. thanks for the heads up.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 08:39 PM

Great threads already. Thank you. It's still a touchy subject isn't it?

I've been thinking recently about how country music was set up by the "Lost Cause" idea that pervaded the south and the country at large during Reconstruction. My idea is that elements of country music became the part of the national brain/heart where the mourning and loss of the South was given a forum to work itself out. Almost like a diary. That some entries would be heated, vitriolic, bigoted, hateful should be expected. Others have mediated the loss and grief and as we get further and further away from the War you see a gradual trailing off of those motifs in the music, BUT the song structures dealing with loss, grief, defeat, 'righteous' indignation etc. still pervade the music that was, in my growing opinion, founded on the stories that were constructed by the South about the South after the war.

Keep'm comin'. I appreciate any contribution to this conversation.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 08:08 PM

Y'know there are dozens of songs about wanting to get back home to my "little cabin" in the south. But I doubt they fill the bill for what you are after.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 08:02 PM

As someone who has lived most of their life in the south - yes there are SOME people who are stuck in the 19th century. But not ALL of us are. To think that would be the height of delusion. Possibly even bigotry? It would be like saying all folksingers have beards.

"The night they drove old Dixie down" needs to be mentioned of course.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:56 PM

I like the 19th century. I also like OLD country music.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:36 PM

Maybe it's because the South is still stuck in the 19th century?

Living in Maine - especially the last couple weeks - and saying that is calling the kettle black (not that I would accuse you of being a pot, of course...).

P.

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 04:28 PM

Maybe it's because the South is still stuck in the 19th century?

Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Maryrrf
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 03:29 PM

Here's one: "I Sang Dixie As He Died"

Subject: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 02:47 PM

Hey Mudcatters.

I'm working on a research paper and I'm looking for sentimental Country tunes that mourn the loss of 'Southern Values' and/or the Confederacy after the war. My yardstick is David Allen Coe's 'Grandpa'.

"Grandpa I been thinkin bout you lately....I still sing the old songs that you taught me, and I still pray to Jesus now and then. Just like you I wish that he would save me, to see the day the South will Rise Again...."

The idea is to discover/discuss the possibility that the 'Lost Cause' mentality was funneled into Country music, where songs of greif and loss developed that are analogous to actual Civil War songs of battle field death.

My goodness what have I gotten myself into.

So let's call this game 'Country songs about the Confederacy' - go.