How can we make folk music more apealing

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: WyoWoman
Date: 24 Sep 99 - 08:59 AM

The whole field of "world music" is folk music, at least it's folk-based. It's just that the definition of folk might be expanding to include non-European, English-speaking folk music. Which I believe is a very important and wonderful development.

I think it's important, as someone mentioned above, to be flexible -- the task is to hold the line enough that tradition does keep in the mix, but to be inclusive enough that "trad" doesn't become (or continue to be) a Members-only club.

And when young people do show up, don't interact with them as if they're the ignoramuses and you're the keeper of the flame. Not being a "regular folkie" (I'm an irregular, just as in every other aspect of my life), I've seen this treatment up close and personal. It's even worse when a young person is involved.

People are hungry for good stories, and so many folk songs have endured because they're wonderful stories. People (children, especially) are also hungry for music and ready to be turned on to the fact that they can participate in music, not just consume it. I think one way to go is to involve the musicians in our communities with programs that somehow teach kids to take music into their own hands. And to make sure that we allow our "folk" music to reflect the diversity of our cultures.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 06:22 PM

Hi, Rick - what's hard to understand about the "contemporary" style you speak of is that it's a very commercial style, more akin to elevator music than the music that's popular with kids. Same with church music that's directed at kids. I think kids appreciate honesty in their music, just like we do.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: lamarca
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 06:19 PM

I've noticed that many of the major figures in the British "Folk Revival" of the 60's and 70's seem to be a lot more flexible in their tastes than many of the local folkies I know around here. Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson do exquisite traditional music, but they also perform and enjoy rock - witness Martin's membership in Steeleye Span, his talented performance of "Tortoise From Hell" a la Maltloaf on "Oranges and Lemmings" (Mrs. Ackroyd Band), Norma's recording of Jerry Garcia's "Black Muddy River", etc. Eliza Carthy and Kirsty MacColl are two folk-daughters whose sales aren't hurting among folks their age.

Over here in the US, the 20-something folk crowd has bands like Cordelia's Dad, Eileen Ivers Band and the Freighthoppers doing today's equivalent of the English folk/rock trip. I myself don't like a lot of their stuff, but as someone who discovered traditional music by listening to Fairport Convention in college, I think that there will always be a few (never a LOT of) people who discover traditional folk styles by listening to modern renditions and are curious enough to look up the origins. With today's outpouring of CD re-releases of older source recordings like the Lomax collections, Topic's Voice of the People, etc., so much more is available today than was ever around when I first started getting interested.

Our big problem in the DC area is getting people interested in running a folk bureauocracy: doing all the work involved in running a club, putting on a big folk festival, booking and publicizing concerts, etc. As our members get older and have children, houses(in need of repair), more responsible jobs and/or arthritis, the ability and willingness to do the grunt work to provide exposure to OUR tastes in "Folk" performers is decreasing - and there's no influx of 20-30-year-olds clamoring to help. But that's another thread topic....

P.S. Sister Mary Elephant will get you for that dance, Spaw...("'Spaw...'Spaw.....'Spaw.......WAKE UP!!!!)

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 05:57 PM

Why do I keep falling for your devilish plans Catspaw? Perhaps someone someone can create the "Catspaw Dance" site. I see one little Catspaw maddly dancing away as 300 cowpokes shoot up the floor just beneath his twinkling feet.

I'm confused at times when I see kids' entertainers trying so hard to present the music in a "contemporary" fashion. Very current rock oriented. At least that isn't as bad as the "Broadway" style that so many have gotten into over the last few years. I think you can be very "retro" in your approach and if you're a likeable sort, the kids will get into it. As always (like a broken record) I believe in teaching the little buggers how to play simple (folk) musical instruments.

Rick

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 05:44 PM

Catspaw, the Christian Deer Hunters have you in their sights.
You're in big trouble now, Spaw. No blue clicky's gonna get you out of it.
Confessions will be held at 5 PM. Maybe that will work, or at least let you die a happy death.
I imagine the deer hunters don't think fondly of confession, so they probably have me in their sights, too.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 05:24 PM

Gee Joe...you haven't noticed I've been doing blue clickies for months and months??? Otherwise how would I ever have posted all that "door" stuff at the tavern.....stop by more often! But if you don't get a chance Father Joebro, here's ONE FOR YOU!

Spaw

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Chet W.
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 04:46 PM

Great subject and good suggestions so far, and I mean to give this some thought, but here are just a few problems that would have to be overcome, which I have thought about a lot:

-"Folk" music, whatever the hell that means, is by definition handed down, up, and sideways by the oral tradition, so I'm not sure if there is a mass media way to popularize it without changing it a lot.

-Oral traditions are passed around in communities, which is one thing that is very rare, at least in a geographic sense, in the US anymore.

-And, (I think this may be relevant), what was always called "country" music in the past (I still claim that word, despite its current misuse) was made to some extent by and for people with some agricultural or at least rural background. The same would be true of any kind of traditional music you could name; it developed and prospered (or not) in a community, in the sense of a village or a neighborhood or at least a region or a small country. Now that we create our own communities, I'm not sure that it still has the sort of "heritage" kind of feel that it used to have.

These may have been three ways of saying the same thing, and I'm not just trying to be negative, but these are things that I think we have to consider. I'll be back with constructive ideas. I really like the one about volunteering to play in the schools.

Chet

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: JR
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 04:29 PM

I'm with Joe... Don't analize it to death. Include anybody who thinks they are folk, and let it show how much fun it is to get a few people together to play and share the music.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:46 PM

Sure, funds to schools have been cut, especially in areas like art and music (the non-essentials?) But I am betting that those of us who have the least proficiency with music would be welcomed by most elementary school teachers if we proposed to teach the kids a session on Traditional Music. A guitar, some basic rhythm instruments, and enough lyric sheets to be passed among the kids should be all that's required. Maybe we can send those 4th graders into 5th grade singing Shenandoah instead of the latest from Disney or New Kids on the Block.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Tom B.
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:24 PM

We need more music (not just folk music) promoted in the schools. Our culture needs to value the arts and honest, humble aspiration (hope that doesn't sound TOO innocent).

Like most things, especially politics, such moving of the tides cannot be done by one person, but by people bonded in like interest. It would, I think, require, as all good ideas which come "before their time", individuals to catalyze movement in the right direction. Please take two steps forward, and do it.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:18 PM

Oh, my....Catspaw learned hos to make blue clicky things. We're in big trouble now....

If you're going to help kids appreciate folk music, I think it's important to avoid pretense. If you worry too much about making a song authentic, you'll bore the kids to tears. If you make a song your own and sing it like you love it, the kids will quite likely love it, too.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: paddymac
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 03:07 PM

Like lots of other things, most people tend to fix their musical preferences on whatever was popular in their peer group as teenagers. If that be true, we should endeavor to get various kinds of folk music (and other arts) presented to pre-teen and early teen kids. Their horizons are expanding fairly rapidly at that stage in life and they need exposure to many different minds of music, and other things as well. Even if they don't latch on to then, it will at least have some familiarity to them the next time they are exposed to it. Note there is a substantial difference between "exposure" and "forced feeding". How long was "folk" in the dumps before the "revival" of the 50's? Maybe we need to emphasize more that "folk" is music that people make for themselves, and that they don't need to be professional caliber musicians to contribute and have fun doing it. I often wonder whether the modern availability of professional music at the flick of a switch discourages the mass of people from even trying, or worse, even suspecting that they can and should make music for themselves. Ah, well, time to shove the soap box way back in the closet again.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Bert
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 02:42 PM

Great 'Spaw. You gonna bring some dulcimers to the Getaway and show us all how to do the same?

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 02:36 PM

I posted this on one of the other threads to which the astute Mr. Freeman refers and rather than retype...CLICK HERE.......Thanks.

Spaw

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: annamill
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 01:20 PM

I think that folk is resurging strongly. When I had my first gathering, I was amazed at how many locals responded when told. I found gatherings around my area and I've met a lot of musicians that play. Also, surprise, surprise. A lot of the musicians that came to our rock jams also play folk and blues. ;-0.

I think it would take a couple of hit records to bring it back. Probably just needs marketing. If I had a good deal of money, I would help to increase the marketing budget of Folk-Legacy. Radio spots, TV shows (infomercials), good press, bad press (they say as long as they spell your name right), large well publicized concerts, giving packages to the school systems, like campbell soup does, etc. Folk-Legacy could put coupons into each recording and give the school one dollar for each coupon received. The school might promote the music if it might gain something. Sorry, Sandy and Caroline. ;-)

It could be done. I think, though, it may happen by itself. It's already growing. Doesn't anyone else see an increase in the interest, or are we in our own little worlds?

Now don't get mad. It works for everything else. Look at Billy Graham, etc.

Love, annap

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: GeorgeH
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 01:06 PM

Don't patronise the kids.

Don't trivialise the music.

Don't put down THEIR (peer-group) music.

Encourage them to listen to ANYTHING - and be ready to do the same yourself. (Norma Waterson gives great credit to the fact that her family listened to a very wide range of music).

Make sure they get some of the BEST folk-related performers to listen to.

Encourage them to perform, together. If you've got some reasonable musicians get them working "by ear" (not a skill that ranks large in a more "classical" musical training).

Treat them as fellow human being and work at having good relations with them; kids rejecting their parents' music (or what they see as such) is most often far more a rejection of the parents than of the music!

Be far more ready with praise than with criticism, and constructive with the critisism you do offer. And if you're going to offer criticism make sure you're ready to take it, too!

Accept you ain't going to win them all and don't get despondant.

G.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: selby
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 01:01 PM

There are lots of youngsters performing but in the main they are children of exsisting folkies. The tradition is knocking on the door as can be seen by Norma Waterson & Kate Rusby geting nominated for a Mercury prize. But unfortunately we are yet to appeal to a wider audience but does that bring it's own problems. If you go to european countries on the hol's we are bombardied with traditional dancing & music on the Hotel's theme night there tradition for that may have taken a battering as it looses spontanaty. I wonder wether we should keep quite, keep it to ourselves & enjoy it but that's a negative & selfish attitude.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: j0_77
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:53 PM

Wrong wrong its all wrong ... kidding I must say the kids where ever I live love folk music - oddly they like the Banjo more than anything else especially old timey mountain type songs - ie sung with a Banjo backing.

Froggy went a courtin

Cave dat possum

Ole Rattler is a blind ole dawg
Good as he can be but every night at supper time
Believe that dawg can see
:)
Hey Rattler heah boy
Hey Rattler hey

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Tracey
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:47 PM

Exactly. Get more people singing it-at home, in school, or if some band like Steeleye would come along and make a splash; familiarity breeds content. Some of the best times I've had lately were at a good old rousing Pub Sing.

Subject: RE: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: MMario
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:38 PM

exposure. Most people don't dislke folk music or traditional music, they dislike what they THINK folk or traditional music consists of. And they are quite frequently wrong.

Subject: How can we make folk music more apealing
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 12:35 PM

In Why doesn't our music sell, why bad music sells and why Johnny can't sing. There have been a number of comments about youngters, education etc.

Rightly or wrongly, I feel that a number of us (and certainly myself) have got caught up in the negative aspects and would like to start a new thread that addresses the question:

"What can we do to get more youngsters involved in folk music?"

Jon