BS: Peace in Ireland?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Den
Date: 11 May 07 - 11:07 AM

Maybe we are all a little jaded, there have been many false dawns. I've spoken to a number of people on the street and the consensus seems to be "big deal let them get on with it". There seems to be an air of wait and see. Are the peace walls going to come down? Are people on either side going to all of a sudden get along? Are the predominantly protestant police force going to suddenly become nondiscriminatory? In answer to your question Dave, who knows, what has changed, what will change, who will change?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 07 - 10:20 AM

Anyone with a good handle on the region that can answer my question?

Please?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 May 07 - 05:31 AM

Got me there Keith. This is a serious question for anybody watching daytime television.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 May 07 - 04:38 AM

Was he the one who would stride into a bar and demand " a pint of ale"?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 May 07 - 04:25 AM

Does anyone remember that edition of Columbo, where the murderer was a personable Irish writer who was an amusing raconteur and author on one level - on another he was wild fenian monster raising funds for 'a terrorist organisation'.

Luckily Columbo caught him. I bet he's out by now, under the peace agreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 07 - 04:16 AM

Sorry if this is turning into a one man thread - I keep remembering things. Like the old Columbo TV series - I keep popping back through the door:-)

Would it be possible that the Nationalist factions in the shared assembly would realise that a strong and quick move toward unification would cause these problems? They are, after all, clever people. They are also politicians and will do their upmost to ensure they stay as popular as they can to as many people as thay can - That is what politicians do! If so would the scenario I described above not be a serious option. Ie where a devolved 'state of Ulster' develops before any move is made toward unification? Much like the UK mainland, where Scotland has it's own government and Wales has its own assembly (and don't get me going on what England has!) we could then have seperate states - Eire and Ulster - sharing the same piece of land?

This is a serious question to those actualy living in the region. Is it possible?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 07 - 04:05 AM

BTW - In case anyone thinks I am lying or twisting the truth in some way the above statement about the Paisley Party etc. was made a mere 7 months ago here

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 07 - 04:02 AM

You could be right, AM, you are best placed to know what is going on. I sincerely hope not. After all you were wrong when you said "can anyone possibly believe that the Paisley Party will sit and debate with Adams and co like everyday normal governments,in view of the DUPs bigtory towards anything Nationalist, that is a forlorn hope.
" on the other thread. In the nicest possible way I do hope that you will be proved wrong once again! What would happen in the event of the predicted riots and civil unrest? Will Stormont ask for assistance from the UK government? Maybe get the army in? History does tend to repeat itself:-(

Everyone do whatever they can to stop it happening - even if it is only keeping your fingers crossed!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:24 AM

So if as a minority they can not get their own way, they might try to impose their will on the majority by armed struggle?
I am sure that kind of dark ages logic is dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 May 07 - 02:50 AM

Jimmy C, I have to agree with your forecast, the Nationalists are going to be the majority party in the future and then the reality will strike home for the Unionists, will they quietly agree to democratic rule? I believe we all know the answer to that question.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 May 07 - 03:36 PM

Funny that the real Ulstermen, and NI exiles in the US, are yukking it up in this other thread while leaving us outsiders to take up this serious discussion here!

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 07 - 11:52 AM

Do you really think that the south want to take on the responsibility for all the problems in the north Jimmy? As much as a united Ireland is an admirable ambition it is not as straight forward as the north voting for it. I think the power sharing assembly will pave the way for a state goverened by neither England nor Ireland for a while. That way the egos of all the old protagonists will eventualy subside and a new assembly will, in not too many years, be able to accept rule by the government of the south and the south will be able to absorb a the six counties without taking on all the current problems. I hope so anyway.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 10 May 07 - 11:32 AM

Keith,

The problem is not with Paisley, Adams etc.
Paisley is 81 years old and wants to go down in history as a peacemaker ?. Adams and McGuinness want a unified country (all 32 counties) and will do nothing to destroy the reaching of that goal.
The real problem won't raise it's head until the day Nationalist do become the majority in the north. That day will not be too long in coming especially when Sinn Fein also make gains in the elections in the 26 counties. When hard line loyalists are faced with the real prospect of a United Ireland, then the riots will start and bombs and guns will come out again, believe me.
As a nationalist I hope and pray that I am wrong but I doubt it.

Only time will tell.

In the meantime let us enjoy the dream of a lasting peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 07 - 06:19 AM

Agreed Keith.

Well - it's day 3 now and they are still working together. If this carries we could well have a Paisley/McGuinness team visiting the middle east to show them how it's done:-)

Fingers and everything else still crossed.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 May 07 - 05:27 AM

It used to be any excuse to start a thread on the subject of NI.
We have so many Irish contributors, yet no one has an opinion on this?
Someone said that they had seen it all before. Well there have been agreements between the moderates on both sides before, but nothing like this. Paisley, McGuinness and Adams laughing and joking together.
Who thought they would live to see that?
Historic IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 07 - 05:10 AM

I really am quite amazed at the lack of response to such an amazing event. If you look back on the threads about the troubles and other events in the north of Ireland they often went on for weeks!

Maybe good news is just not enough to fuel discussions and I am destined to be dissapponted by human behaviour forever:-(

Ah well.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 07 - 05:08 AM

What to the catters living in Ireland think about it ?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 10 May 07 - 12:59 AM

I sincerly hope so, all my family and my wife's family are still there. The events of the past few weeks were indeed very welcome and if things keep improving then the north of Ireland will reach it's full potential as one of the prettiest places in Europe with the friendliest people on earth. (with all due respect to the Newfoundlanders whom I love).
The time for vigilance is now and people there have to be on the lookout to guard against some radical group that will do it's best to wreck the power sharing agreement.
The anomosity and distrust between the two sections of the community has been built up over hundreds of years and will not disappear overnight. The real hope lies with the young people who have the power to make it a lasting peace. The older generation carry a lot of baggage which will be difficult to shred.
Hope springs eternal.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 07 - 06:05 PM

I hope it works.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Cats
Date: 09 May 07 - 01:51 PM

We were in Belfast this Easter and it really is an amazing place. We did the city tour and went to all the places that saw the troubles and heard all the history but the overwhelming message from ordinary people we met out there was that they didn't want their children growing up like they had to. Good Luck to them. Give them all the support they need and want and go and visit.. you'll never regret it. I can let you know of some good pubs, good sessions and excellent food...

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Schantieman
Date: 09 May 07 - 12:00 PM

I remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard that the Good Friday Agreement had been signed and thought then that it might be the beginning of the end. When I think back over the last I-dont-know-how-many years about all the violence, bloodshed, bereaved families and cripples created in the name of religion - OK, and politics, well principally politics - well, we can only hope that they will manage to work together in peace.   I had tears in my eyes last night as I listened to the report on the radio, and again now as I write.

If they can get over their differences, maybe there's some hope left?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: skipy
Date: 09 May 07 - 11:19 AM

"Peace" when is he flying over?
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 May 07 - 10:53 AM

God, let's hope this is finally the end (or at least the beginning of the end) of so many centuries of destructive behavior.

The ordinary working people of NI, or of any community anywhere, have many more common interests, and more important ones, than the differences between their religions.

I realize, of course, that the differences go far beyond theology and church affiliation. In Ireland, one's "religion" is really just shorthand for identifying the community into which one was born and its historic relationship to British rule. That's complicated, I realize, but sooner or later, the differences just have to be finally put to rest, and hopefully that time has finally come.

The British Empire is not the mololithic power it used to be, and none of the churches enjoy their formerly dominant roles in people's lives and minds. It's time for everyone to let go and quit living in the past. Appreciating the music and culture of one's history is fine, but enjoying such traditions should not prevent folks from living in the present and looking forward to a peaceful and productive future.

Peace, love, and best of luck to everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 May 07 - 10:42 AM

Here's hoping it will take: Read all about it.

Subject: BS: Peace in Ireland?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 07 - 10:08 AM

I must say I am very surprised a thread has not been started already. I feel very optomistic that this is the end of the troubles. Or at least the begining of the end. Anyone else got any other ideas?

On the darker light side a UK paper today showed a cartoon of Messrs. Paisley and McGuinness stood at the bar at Stormont.

"Fancy a Kneecap, or sorry, Nightcap, Ian?"

"Aye, Martin, I could murder a Guinness..."

Cheers

Dave