BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Stu
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 10:34 AM

"In what way, Stu that was Sugarfoot, is a political career 'not a real job'? You try making a success of it and see how much work or effort involved, why don't you?"

A political career is a job that (in an ideal world) requires the individual involved to have had a broad experience in life. This means understanding that political decisions have sometimes significant effects on the lives of individuals who are often powerless to act against those decisions. The problem is that many of todays politicians have not gone through the process of having to find and get a job on merit as they have come up through established routes to a political careers; the obvious case being the Bullingdon boys running the country who are groomed for tory greatness from an early age. They have little or no idea of life in the real world and they cannot empathise with people from a large part of the population. It's worth noting this isn't the same as Thatcher's inability to care about the people and communities who suffered due to her inability to understand causality (undoubtedly a character defect), but the fact that they've never been exposed to that side of life.

More useful would be if they would come to me and try to make a success of being a sole trader in an economic environment that means I get zero tax breaks, no stat pay if I'm ill and have to fight against constantly rising costs and large companies insisting on long invoice settlement times. Not much chance of that is there?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Bert
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 09:42 AM

Thieving.

Banjoman, I think that she will actually answer to a lower authority.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: banjoman
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 07:01 AM

She kept her promise to put the country on its feet. How true - cant afford train tickets -petrol for the car- the bike has been pinched. Yes she certainly put this country on its feet. This current government is attempting to canonize someone whom they "betrayed" to use her own words. Much as I despised the woman and her like, I hope she rests in peace and is now answerable to a higher authority -as we all must one day.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:27 AM

Godwin's Law strikes again!

British industry was in a state of decline, partly as a result of restrictive practices which made it inefficient, partly as a result of mismanagement and poor investment, and partly as a result of overseas competition. Would the IMF or the EEC would have allowed the subsidies to the mining, steel and other uneconomic industries to continue? Could those industries have survived without being subsidised? Would the effect on those areas which were entirely dependent on those industries have been any different?

I don't know - we can only speculate. But the idea that the era before Thatcher was one of unity and prosperity which she came along and smashed clearly doesn't bear examination.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 06:13 AM

Come back, Mr Godwin ~~ all is forgiven!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 05:59 AM

Which is a bit like saying think of the mess which Germany would have been in if the Nazis hadn't come to power. Some prices are just too steep to pay.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 04:58 AM

What never seems to be discussed is what the country would have been like if she hadn't come to power. Mining and other heavy industries had been in decline for decades (Harold Wilson's Labour government closed more pits than Thatcher) and had to be supported by unsustainable public subsidies because they were uneconomic. British manufacturing, and especially the car industry, were a joke.

The unions may have looked after their own members' interests but made it difficult to get a job if you weren't in the right union, and difficult to do it properly if you were - many of the strikes were demarcation disputes between unions because someone from one union had picked up apanner which only someone from a different union was allowed to use.

Margaret Thatcher saw that drastic action was needed and had the clarity of vision and determination to do it. One of her mistakes was to rely too much on the market to pick up the pieces - in regions where the entire economic base had collapsed this was never going to happen. However regeneration did take place, but was perhaps too little too late.

However if she had not taken firm action to restructure the economy the liklihood is that the decline would have continued, with much the same results for those areas dependent on mining, steel or other uneconomic industries. The difference is that the more successful areas of the economy might never have flourished.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 04:38 AM

The overwhelming personality that can be appreciated by simply realising that, more than 20 years after she left office, here we are still going on about her, as if she was some witch who had cast magic spells over us all, instead of being quite clearly, as that character in the David Lodge novel of her time pointed out, a responder to history and a brilliant rider of the zeitgeist.

~M~

In what way, Stu that was Sugarfoot, is a political career 'not a real job'? You try making a success of it and see how much work or effort involved, why don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Stu
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 04:12 AM

"The policies that were the corner-stones of her government are all still in place today and they have been adopted in other EU countries."

That's not a legacy worth bragging about. These policies, continued by the tories and New Labour have culminated in the appalling state of affairs in the UK now. No social housing, young people priced of the property ladder, the destruction of the welfare state, the privatisation of the NHS, the crash of 2009, austerity, increasing inequality in all parts of society, an oligarchy, the stopping of legal aid, the ongoing erosion of workers rights to compete with far-east sweat shops, the bonus culture in business, usury, a complete lack of accountability by big business, the shame of Levenson, the deregulation of banking, a political elite that has never held a real job, the 1%, the paramilitarisation of the police force and their use as a tool to oppress legitimate protest etc etc etc

Not a lot to be proud about there.

Stu that was Sugarfoot Jack

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Apr 13 - 03:59 AM

Had a quick read of some of the comments earlier up the thread and someone wrote:

"I doubt many here will agree, but the state of the country in the late '70s was pretty grim."

This is one of the standard cliches that are trotted out by her admirers whever Mrs T. is mentioned. But isn't the state of the UK in the early 2010s "pretty grim"? Apart from the 'economic crisis' (caused by the greedy and selfish who Thatcher encouraged)we're now a more unequal society with much higher levels of unemployment than in the 1970s; rents are much higher and housing more expensive; politicians now represent property developers, rather than voters and taxpayers, and those same developers are busily covering our countryside with 'executive' housing - much of it out of the financial reach of those who most need it. Our towns and cities are dismal 'clones' of each other and many of the big chains, which populate them, are going bust so that the tacky shopping centres begin to resemble 'after-the-apocalypse' ghost towns. And don't get me started on the state of the environment!

So goodbye Mrs T. - rest in peace but please don't come back to haunt us. It's time we moved on to something better!

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 10:26 PM

At present, her silence.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:01 PM

...and it's clear to any punter that the Generals in their Junta only wanted an excuse to start a fight.
But, Maggie, just like them you weren't too popular back home and the thought of war just filled your heart with glee, "We will fight them on the beaches" could be heard in all her speeches, and the whole damn navy had to go to sea. (Ian Robb)

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:57 PM

She did a good "Meryl Streep"

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:38 PM

Qualities and Thatcher are not words which usually appear in the same sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:29 PM

The unlikelihood of her ever coming back!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:02 PM

in answer to the original question

none at all

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 11:26 AM

Mrs Thatcher, honarable , reminds me of the ballad
Dirty maggie May.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maggie May [replaced copy/paste of entire page with the link - mod]

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,lurker
Date: 28 May 04 - 05:26 PM

Yes, but sadly we are not sheep

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,pedant
Date: 28 May 04 - 05:25 PM

The UK needs butchers as well as shepherds

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Dylan
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:23 PM

How they can make all that grass stay on a roof year in year out. Amazing and they live up to there names dont they.

Well what qualities do I admire in the Barroness well it would have to be the total lack of discrimination between the english and the porridge wogs(myself included as the latter) on the poll tax issue by giving it to Scotland well before the English I mean hwere better to try such an unjust taxation system that in the poorest part of the UK (NI excluded). But it didnt seem to matter about the hatred felt for the tax until it arrived down south and they did the same as we did then low and behold it was replaced. MMMMM how can you admire some one that you have no respect for thats my point to the question.
Cheers for the noo
Dylan

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:06 PM

I see the Chileans have stripped Maggies good friend,Pinochet,of immunity, that means they can try the old tyrant for all of those murders.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:27 AM

oh come on the guys got a stratocaster, I call that nailing your colours to the mast

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:28 AM

I admire her, she had what all of us want Tony Blair to have...the courage of his convictions.....

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 May 04 - 09:18 AM

Well said Mrs Duck, I agree entirely, she should be burned at the stake, fuelled by COAL.
eric

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 28 May 04 - 07:21 AM

No MIke she generates so much hatred after all these years. She destroyed whole communtites and yes I do think the country would have been a better place if the unions had won!

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 May 04 - 08:09 PM

Not this man's woman, GUEST, Lovechild

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:29 PM

oh you missed that chapter in philip larkins biog.....

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Cllr
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:29 PM

She generates so much discussion after so many years

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:26 PM

She never had illicit public sex with anyone on the streets of Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Lovechild
Date: 27 May 04 - 05:44 PM

Mrs Thatcher was a mans woman

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:51 AM

oh, post no 100 by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:50 AM

no, true.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 04 - 08:43 AM

I had a sort of gruding respect for her. She did some things that seemed harsh at the time..but they needed doing and she did them. At least we all knew where she stood...can't say that about this current bunch, can we ?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 May 04 - 04:17 PM

I'm glad she never caved in to the pressure to wear low-cut jeans and a halter top.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST,Maggie Thatcher
Date: 24 May 04 - 06:12 AM

You can all fuck off. I set out to destroy the trade unions and nearly succeeded.
I hate all working class people, especially fucking miners.

Maggie of Kesteven

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 24 May 04 - 05:56 AM

She proved to me that women can be as excreble politicians as men...and as dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 May 04 - 05:49 AM

One of the legacies she left is the influence on the men who have followed her....Hope they don't don the wig and clothes in her image..in private....Who knows????

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:59 AM

Seems like finding a "quality" for "Mad Maggie" would be like finding a "crock of fetid dingo kidneys".

As McGofH (and a few others) said, she ain't in charge anymore, Huzzah!

She came to St. Louis a couple of years ago as part of a "speaker's series" and I couldn't find anyone who felt it necessary to go and picket her. I thought it over and decided they were right. She was "gone" and unlikely to return.

What a grand legacy she left!!!

The Bitch!

CB

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: HuwG
Date: 23 May 04 - 08:00 PM

My personal thoughts re Maggie and the Falklands War. It is a long-exploded myth that it was Maggie's personal "handbagging" which led to victory. With most ministers (including John Nott, the Defence Secretary) vacillating and considering accepting Galtieri's fait accompli, the service chiefs, particularly those of the Royal Navy, gatecrashed her office and said in effect, send everything we have listed in Janes to take those islands back. Otherwise, there is no reason to keep the Royal Navy in being.

During the war, she did perform as a Churchillian tory leader is supposed to, but at the end of hostilities, many people (including many in the army who I knew) disliked the triumphalist attitude. Such petty acts as not including any personnel who had been visibly wounded in the victory parades, sent entirely the wrong message. Instead of, "We sent soldiers to fight far away. Here is what it cost. We believe for that for principles of democracy and sovereignty, it was worth paying. Agree or not as you wish, but these servicemen embody your right to do so", the message seemed to be "We have proved that we had bigger cojones than Johnny Gaucho. We salute those who did not cop a bomb or a bullet. They are winners The rest, requiring more men to carry them off the battlefield, are losers. Those who complain are sore losers."

Oddly enough, I believe that she had qualities that we don't ever notice in her purely public image. Her husband was a charming, self-deprecating patrician who took in good part his cruel lampooning (by John Wells and Richard Ingrams). Her home life seems to have been perfectly happy, although her son is not perhaps a good advertisment for it.

Overall though, I never liked her combative style, and her pig-headed persistence in courses which were obviously unwise, and divisive.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:25 PM

Sincerity in itself is not a good quality, when it is combined with ruthless wrongheadedness.

huff and puff, Ed? That seems to suggest a certain tendency to get over excited, which sometimes results in people making personal attacks on other people just because they find themselves in disagreement with them. Offhand, I can't recall ever doing that on the Mudcat. If I have, that would have been a singularly pointless thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:11 PM

She was a strong minded woman...perhaps stronger minded than the "Old woman" who is Prime Minister at the mo

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: freda underhill
Date: 21 May 04 - 09:09 AM

I was working as a political cartoonist during her time. yes, she was a good subject for characterture.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:18 AM

Did I mention the fact that it was a uranium mine, and we all glow in the dark!! you lucky lucky buggers!!! AND to make matters worse, we had to play electric guitars because we couldn't afford proper acoustic ones!

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 May 04 - 05:05 AM

You were lucky.
eric

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:05 PM

You were lucky, el ted.

We had to get up half hour before we went to bed. Pay pit owner, we did, just for the privilige of wehking there.
When we got 'ome, our dad used to beat us within 2 thousanths of our lives, and we 'ad to re gurgitate our breakfast, just so as rest of mah 10 brothurs an sisturs could get some sort of nurishment in ther poor little bellies.

And you think you had it tough

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:04 PM

Her Demise !

She did star in one of my favourite political posters - it was a Labour Party one.   It showed a photo of her face (with a very snotty expression) taken from below, looking right up her nostrils. The caption read "Do the Tories get up your nose ?". I think that she or the Conservative Party got a court order to stop it being used - it was very funny at the time though.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: el ted
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:00 PM

You've never had it so good! Stop whining, none of you had go down t'pit at six years old did you, like I did?

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 May 04 - 11:53 AM

I admire here current quality of "being dead". May she stay that way for a long time.
And bearing in mind Tony Blair's policy of copying everything which Thatcher did in her politics, may he also copy this quality - and quickly - Ta.

Quack!!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:55 AM

Aye, weelittledrummer, for the old hard left socialists, it's always been the same song, it's always somebody else's fault, never your own.

They should be doing this, they should be providing that, they should be giving us this.

And do you know what? Even if all the above WAS done, provided and given - It still would never be enough.

Subject: RE: BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:22 AM

yes ringer it is a vain hope to educate the population comprehensively. there will always be hopeless cases like your good self