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BS: FORGIVENESS:
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Lena Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:55 AM I forgot to say:alla faccia del casino!!! Sorry if I let some personal shit slip in public!!!Everybodyis freely doing the same and nobody is going at it...I wouldn't have been so inappropriate if I wasn't shaken in that exact moment.So thanks very much could you all remove that first message of mines?! |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Lena Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:47 AM "Blessed Are The Cheesemakers". i suggest we all go and read the thread "Jesus Loves Me but He Can't Stand You" |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:23 PM actually Sandy..........Go ahead and start a thread called "Oral Sex and XXX Topics" so we can all work it into a discussion of training reindeer for the blind. Glad you and Chuck-Tar are going along great and thanks for this thread no matter where it went. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: SandyToes Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:03 PM Hey guys, chuck and i were criticized so bad for our mushy love for each other.....there is NO difference with you guys discussing the different types of sex here...lets find somewhere else to host it at besides in the thread i started as forgiveness.....choose your own thread....and title it sex...or comments on sex.....thank you... sincerely, SandyToes |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: hesperis Date: 22 Aug 00 - 08:51 PM LH - I told you you'd have to be more circumspect now that I'm on M'cat. None of us 'Oreo' natives are gonna let you get away with anything... Way to go flattop! BTW - I do enjoy the 'warm fuzzy feelings' I was talking about, with many people. Some more intense, some less. I just try not to take it seriously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 08:27 PM Point taken. Jen is a tough cookie, and I don't think she would give a hoot (she made said joke on me in front of the entire Orillia song circle), but I will avoid such disclosures in future. Just to be on the safe side. It's nice to hear that Sandy Toes and TAR HEEL are doing so well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: hesperis Date: 22 Aug 00 - 06:59 PM I wouldn't have thought that Jennifer would be humiliated by that, especially since the joke was on George, but you're right GUEST, it should be her choice as to who knows about her sex life. (Or lack thereof.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: tar_heel Date: 22 Aug 00 - 06:35 PM as sandytoes said,chuck(TAR_HEEL) is alive and well and being on my best behavior too!WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THIS THREAD AGAIN? but anyway,we are more in love than ever before and we express it every day in the pm's.we haven't gone away...we are right here......sincerely,tar_heel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: GUEST Date: 22 Aug 00 - 05:53 PM Yes, this is a public forum, and seen by many more people than just those who respond openly. It is a breach of etiquette to disclose a person's surname, but to then discuss their sexual life, is even worse. I do not know who "Jennifer Ives" is, but I guarantee she is known by "some" on this very public forum. I can only imagine the humiliation she will feel when that "some" disclose to her the details of "her" sexual life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 05:20 PM flattop - I didn't think she was talking about a guy who stalked her either, just a guy who was a little out of touch. We aren't talking behind her face. This is a public forum. Most guys think they have strong feelings when in truth it's more a case of strong hormones. Not that the two can't combine forces...that's been known to happen. In many ancient tribal cultures couples were expected to have a lengthy period of courtship before becoming sexually involved. That was so the fire that kindled in the lower chakras (sexual energy) would build up until it ascended into and opened the heart chakra (love-friendship-idealism-altruism). Having opened the heart, they were then ready to embark on a real partnership. This was a very wise procedure. If they had sex too soon the energy tended to just discharge itself...particularly in the case of the men, and the heart was not fully opened. hesperis - "that warm fuzzy feeling...affection and lust mixed" Well, yes indeed. Both affection and lust are perfectly legitimate in their own right, given appropriate circumstances. I think it's very sad how sexuality has been both demonized and idealized out of all context in the Judeo-Christian tradition...the virgin/whore dichotomy. Taoist thought treats it more as simply the natural process of exchanging Yin and Yang energy, which is seen throughout nature. They see it as a health issue, not a moral issue. Taoists were not prudes, nor were they licentious. That warm fuzzy feeling is one of life's kindest and most beneficent gifts, but in this society one must use it with some discretion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: hesperis Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:57 PM Mbo - that was supposed to be a joke. I guess it was overkill. Sorry. flattop - if you want to do wierd capitalizations on my name, it's CHaGaLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: flattop Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:51 PM Gee Little Hawk, I didn't think that Lena was talking about a guy who stalked her. I thought that she was talking about a guy who expessed his strong feelings for her, who then faded into the sunset and left her feeling alone. I could be wrong. Perhaps we should ask her instead of talking about her behind her face. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:47 PM Yeah I do, like for giving you a knuckle sandwich. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: flattop Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:44 PM Thanks for the compliment chaGall. Don't ya think that the guys would have less to complain about in their love lives if they simply shut up and listened once in a while? Why indeed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: GUEST Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:43 PM So, is oral sex just talking about it dweebs, or do you use your right hand for things other than pickin' gee-tar |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:14 PM No, Wreck of the Hesperus, I don't have sex at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: hesperis Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:10 PM LH - yes, me too. Mbo - you have sex with your friends??? Okies. It takes all kinds... ::Strange, sideways look:: What-ever! flattop - not a complete idiot. Sometimes you can be astonishingly lucid... Since that last bit gave it away to David, too, I will sign my name on this. (George, I can't believe it took you _seven_days_ to figure out who I am!!! Pay some attention to my songs why dontcha! *Sheesh*-ka-bob! Sophy figured it out, like, on my second post!!!) Why does everyone from the Orillia Song Circle make LH guess their M'cat identity? I am hesperis, I am Chagall... Is there an echo in here? (I don't remember any past lives though. Durnit!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: SandyToes Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:22 PM Sinsull, I am still here...it just amazes me how a forgivenss thread becomes everything but a forgiveness thread. I appreciate all the concern. I am here, a member and being on my best behavior here....but thanks for the input on the PM's....wow TarHeel, (Chuck) and I tell some wild tales now in them. But such virgin ears here could not take such. LOL!!! So, just to update any of you, we are more in love than ever...Still here, still around, I read everyday and love the comments. Thanks everyone. SandyToes is here to stay. Sincerely, SandyToes |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:02 PM flattop - But, gee, I don't have any good firsthand stories to tell about obsessive guys I've gone out with. Give me a break. All I've had direct experience of is obsessive girlfriends...and perfectly reasonable and excellent girlfriends...and fair to middlin' girlfriends. I did acknowledge that there are any number of obsessive guys out there too. No, it's not the same David. Not the one with the bad hair. It's a David who's way taller than flattop, and has been pursued by at least half of the most gorgeous women in the general Barrie area for longer than I would care to say. He is now engaged, to a very steady and reliable woman, and appears headed for a promising marriage. Bravo! The females of Barrie are still in mourning. Here's a Dylan quote: "Oh, every girl that ever I touched, I did not do it harmfully, and every girl that ever I hurt, I did not do it knowingly. But to remain as friends you need the time to make amends and stay behind, and since my feet are now fast and point away from the past I'll just bid farewell and be down the line..." Bob wrote that at the tender age of around 22 or 23, long before his marriage with Sara. I like it. We've all been hurt, and probably shall be again. As for acting like a jerk...it may have happened at one time or another, but was certainly not with conscious intention. I don't think Lena took offense at my remarks, but if she did I will ask her pardon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Benjamin Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:49 PM Molly is back in the picture? Yes!!!!!!!
How about me? I can right mushy love letters!! Benjamin
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: flattop Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM Older than who? Older is relative Mary, like everything else. Who said they weren't interested? Please don't jump to silly conclusions. Stop sulking. Use your words. Ask questons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: flattop Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:23 PM Little Hawk, Perhaps I'm more serious than you care to admit. Lena wrote, 'I got an audio-letter from a friend today who saw my ex boyfriend.Funny he's still alive.It used to sound like he couldn't wait so come to me hear in Oz and that it was killing him.Far from being dead,he forgot about me and left me without a word. I wonder why it's always like that,every single time.And I do crazy things,fly miles,cross continents,it's always useless.End of the tragedy.I feel better now.It's true I always find myself alone.But at least i won't die a-ok,enough.' Did you tell her that you understood her hurt? That we've all been there and felt horrible? That, yes, men like you and me often act like jerks? That her ex may have felt that her leaving was a rejection? That he may have hurt inside and felt that he couldn't live without her and then found himself adjusting to hurt and anger and to life without her just like she is adjusting to her hurt and getting on with her life? Did you tell her that we all do crazy emotional things? That she doesn't have to be alone? That she should look around at all the interesting people in that part of the globe? That it's difficult to reach out and touch someone on another contenient unless you're as well endowed as Spaw and his uncles? That proximity to other warm blooded beings matters a lot in spite of our feelings that only one person can fill that huge hole in our hearts? No. You told her she was lucky because , 'It's the girlfriends who absolutely REFUSE to disappear that have just about driven me to jump off a handy cliff a few times in the last 30 years.' The girlfriends are to blame. The crazy women. The stalkers. The ones crazy enough to fly contenients to meet the men they miss. We should be so lucky, Little Hawk. You carried this girlfriend who won't quit theme into your story about your friend David. When I have time, I'd like to deal with that story but, I'd like to say for now, and for mudcatters who know my real name, Little Hawk's friend David in that message is not his pal David with the bad hair. david |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:17 PM Thanks, Aunt Mary! |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:12 PM Mbo, Did you guys pass the bottle around Hearme? I'll ask Molly if she wants a letter. She was intrigued by your tape. Aunt Mary By the way guys, I thought at least one of you who make even a feeble attempt at pretending that you might be interested in an older woman. Several of us made it clear we were available. Hell some of us even admitted to going for years without sex. I think I will go sit in the corner with my autoharp now and sulk. Of course even the autoharp thinks I am inadequate since I played Bryan Bowers for her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: tar_heel Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:52 PM BRENDY,chuck is now,TAR_HEEL |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:30 PM May I write mushy love letters to Molly? Only asking... --Matt |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:28 PM Screaming into the night after seeing the turn this thread has taken. His passion has been perverted into the merits of celibacy and the failure of marriage in our culture. I liked it better when there were mushy love letters in the Forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Brendy Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:24 PM And where has Chuck gone, I wonder? B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: tar_heel Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:19 PM sandyToes is still here,little hawk........she is now a mudcat member......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:52 AM Did Sandy Toes go away? |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:50 AM Marriage is great for them that want it. I've seen a few good marriages, and I was impressed. It just goes to show, nothing is impossible. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: SINSULL Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:49 AM SANDYTOES!!!! I AM BEGGING YOU TO COME BACK. PLEASE!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:33 AM Ah, I can see the headlines now! "Relationships and marriage made redundant!" Little Hawk, we don't need lovers like that, because we (well, not me) already have them. They're called "friends." |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:25 AM Hesperis - you too, eh? Food for thought. I think I got the identity thing figured out now...did I get it right? Lena - I have also been puzzling for a long time about the old "is it possible to sleep with someone one night, and not have them there the next day...or be there the next day yourself...talking about your future"? We all have friends we can see on Monday, then go on with the rest of the week not worrying about it. That doesn't mean we don't love our friends. So, why can't we do that with lovers? Why do we think we own our lovers? Have we all been brainwashed by books, movies, songs, and such? Just what the hell is going on? I would love to have a lover whom I didn't have to worry about, the way I don't hav to worry about my friends. I'm always glad to see them when I do see them, and I'm free the rest of the time. That's the way it should be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 11:09 AM flattop - you sardonic scoundrel, I am never quite sure when you're serious and when you're not. I am beginning to suspect you are never serious. I am going to give your phone number and address to Saucy, with detailed instructions of how great a guy you would be for her. If you are still alive and sane a year hence, we can discuss it. "dumping women when he's done with them" indeed! I hope Jesse Helms takes up permanent residence in the wretched hovel you call "home" over in that Homer Simpson type dunghole of a community, Lagoon City. I hope your camel relieves himself on your head while you are engrossed in one of those silly books about computer software that you like to read. I have it on good authority that you have suffered far more than 3 days of celibacy on a few occasions. Did I tell you that your hairdo really sucks? As for love songs...hey, keep singing them, Mbo. The world can always use a few more good love songs. I remain romantic, but cautious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: flattop Date: 22 Aug 00 - 10:15 AM Should I feel responsible for where this thread has gone? I spoke of the singing love tradition. I didn't suggest that we turn this into an exhibit your symptoms thread. ChorttlingChuck and UpperCaseToes look better and better as this thread grows. I believe that advice on how to love and live our lives is often useless. Rather than listening carefully and accepting others' messed up lives, we tend to project our experiences into their problems. Look at how Little Hawk twisted Lena pain and questions about men into his own problem of dumping women when he's done with them and his fear that they just won't go away. I have utmost respect for those of you practising celebacy and trust that you continue this high ideal for the rest of your lives. Three days of celebacy is more than I ever wanted to bear.
Ritchie Havens sang in From a Prison: |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU Date: 22 Aug 00 - 09:43 AM Yikes. Makes you wonder if love is worth it at all. BTW Hesperis, that song is "Animal" by Nine Inch Nails, and pretty disgusting, especially the video. And I'd lose all my fans if I stopped singin romantic ballads. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Lena Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:16 AM Little Hawk,I know I'm lucky.That last one was actually driving me quite crazy...but anyway,he made me feel crap and threathened every sort of thing because I was running far away and then he himself dropped me. Quite humiliating.Talk about integrity. My best friend's granny used to look at her and say bitterly:"Hold yourself or you're gonna be a Peg for life". Tuscan way of saying:You'll never find a boyfriend if you don't dress cute and behave normally(don't paint,don't use your brain,just smile pleasantly). We adopted the 'Peg'way of living and that saves time.All night for reading,all day for doing what you want .And no commitment to anybody.The only problem is that it leads to chastity.No sex.Remember that story off free love?!It's a xxxxxing lie!!!You find me a boy who'll sleep with you one night without coming back the day after talking about future.Sometimes they hang around even if nothing happened.And thank God I'm not a man,because i can bet that on the 'Let's get things seriously,tell me about your feelings for me....'department girls can be much more sticky!!!!! How beautiful to be nasty Mbo and company,you're too young to get intrapped!!Stop listening to romantic folk ballads!!!
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:40 AM Actually Lepus, its just because we're old farts and don't understand this stuff anymore. When I was young and I looked for love in all the wrong places, the ol' girl I was datin' told me I'd be OK if I would just let her turn around. Simple as that!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Lepus Rex Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:35 AM Oh, geez... I came here to say 'Sorry' to Sandy and Chuck for calling their entries 'crap' in the BS:sandytoes thread. But now I see this has become a whole different thread. Ah, well. Carry on with your debauchery, folks. Or lack of it. ;) ---Lepus Rex (but those entries still make me wanna take drugs...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: hesperis Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:28 AM Mbo - It is good that you could hear what LH was saying. You say that you didn't mean that kind of "anything", well, even if you feel that in a small way, people who can get like that will pick up on it. Thinking that you "need" somebody can be very seductive, so take care. Too many people are desperate for love because they don't love themselves very well, and cling to the idealized vision they have of the other, often in the process strangling the love that was originally there... Respect yourself.You still belong to you, no matter who you're with. Love is made of a series of loving actions, not out of a nebulous warm fuzzy feeling. (That is defined as affection and lust mixed.) If this is preachy, I apologise. I have been in those sorts of situations many times, enough to be tired of it, and wary. One guy even played part of a song onto my answering machine - after I had refused to go out with him for six months, had told him off right to his face, and had avoided friends who knew him so I wouldn't have to put up with his possessiveness. The lyrics were: "I want to fuck you like an animal." My friend listened to it and turned white, she was so scared. I wasn't scared so much as angry that he dared try to dominate me like that. I don't even let people I like try shit like that, you know? I have even felt obsessive about one guy I knew, but I completely walked away from even trying to be friends with him. I don't take that kind of wierdness, from either side of the dynamic. I hope that I am whole enough now to take a chance, but I am listening to my instincts! May your relationships always lead to a greater capacity for joy, hesperis (another one for "willnagetlaid" *g*)
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:52 AM You're dead right, Spaw, involuntary celibacy is called "cannagitlaid". Voluntary celibacy, on the other hand, is "willnagitlaid". Har, har! Sounds like something Little John Cameron would say, doesn't it? By the way, lest I be misunderstood, the Jennifer I was referring to who made the wisecrack to me about my own period of celibacy is Jennifer Ives, otherwise known as Jives, a leading light of our own Orillia Folk Society. She loves to bicker with me in a somewhat aggressive but entirely friendly way about anything whatsoever. We frequently disagree but have a mutual respect which goes very deep. As far as I know, she is not (and has not been) on Mudcat. At least, I don't think so... And if so, I have no idea what her codename might be. flattop - there are some civilizations which were built not on the bones of their own ancestors, but the bones of someone else's ancestors...like the children of Israel, shortly after reaching the "promised land", for example. Or the Spanish after taking over Santo Domingo and Cuba. Given time, of course, their own bones do pile up on the top layer, so eventually your expression holds true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 21 Aug 00 - 06:23 PM I think you've nailed it, Spaw. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Aug 00 - 06:19 PM I've already written tons around here on relationships and the importance of two strong people committed to the third entity....the relationship/marriage. When one or the other is screwed up, the third and main entity is hopeless. AS far as involuntary celibacy...........I think that's called "cannagitlaid." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 21 Aug 00 - 05:28 PM Yikes Little Hawk! Ok, I didn't mean THAT extreme! That's downright spooky. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Aug 00 - 05:23 PM Mbo - you poor naive romantic soul...I used to feel just the way you do. I must arrange for a meeting between you and my onetime girlfriend, Saucy. She's looking for someone to obsess over. Then there's the one who was going out with my friend David. Their day to day life eventually became an utter misery due mostly to her own insecurities, but was this girl willing to quit? Nope. She made frightful scenes in public, threatened suicide, got violent, threatened to kill him, threatened to kill her daughter, said she was going to get her biker friends to kill him, kidnapped his personal possessions and held them for ransom, and virtually drove him out of Barrie. All this to get him not to leave her! David is not a man who is easily intimidated by anyone, but this girl had him scared. She finally did give up and is probably driving someone else crazy now. I also know several women who've been trailed around by obsessive men too, not surprisingly...you hear a lot about that these days. I've got no objection to long term and faithful relationships...I'm all for them. I just object to being sucked dry by an insecure, insanely jealous emotional vampire with no life of her own. To put it mildly... Naemanson - I think the term for "involuntary celibacy" might be "deprivation"...or something like that. Or maybe..."desolation row". |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 21 Aug 00 - 05:03 PM Not sure, Brett, but I know how it feels. |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Naemanson Date: 21 Aug 00 - 04:57 PM I understand that celibacy is CHOOSING to go without sex. Is there a word for the other side of the coin, i.e., not having a choice? I'd like to know because I've got a bad case of it myself! |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Mbo Date: 21 Aug 00 - 03:42 PM They can have that too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: FORGIVENESS: From: Liz the Squeak Date: 21 Aug 00 - 03:20 PM Yeah but Mbo - what about the bits in between?! LTS *BG* |